Just do Eot 7th ViCiouS XceL & Epic DZ DMz s1L3nT (if dv8 decides not to participate)
if dv8 does participate.. do the those 5... and the first 3 teams out of Epic DZ DMz & s1L3nT to confirm their full rosters for the tournament and show interest will participate?

If small clans are going to play, then don't add 4v4s. Even 7th had problems to get 4 players for some matches in the last tiw.

If the 1v1bo5 and 2v2bo3 are only 2 points, don't add them because it's just a waste of time

you guys have like 7 new members in 7th now since that TIW so I dont think fielding 4 will be a problem... but I do kinda agree the 4v4s might be a bit of a stretch... I think from the semi finals on (the top 4 teams left in the tournament) you should have one 4v4 home map and one 3v3 home map as a given... it really shouldnt be that much of a problem I think for teams to get 4.

Its not a waste especially if it gives smaller clans more of a chance to win games plus it can throw potentially more maps into the mix as certain maps are 1v1 and 2v2 based.

Yeah i think we can leave the 4v4 part out until the semis but just have it has an option if both teams agree like we did before

No you don't understand. You've not played in any tournament. It's easy as a spectator to watch the games, it's difficult as teams to give up two days over the weekend to play 3 sets of games. Some of us are unable to do two days every weekend. Naturally teams want to put a strong showing, not whoever can turn up at the time.

Yeah veto system worked really well. Teams swapping CBA with Hero when CBA gets vetoed. Your veto system only works if it's the seven games I suggested, or at least changing the setup to accommodate the veto.

I would not seed Dv8. Top CBA group for sure. CBA/Hero are two maps that can easily be vetoed by other clans with your veto system which exposes the guys at Dv8 to maps they lack experience in, at least as a 3v3/4v4 competitive force.

Give them a cut off date to deliver a roster (minimum amount of names). If you get more teams than your desired 8, do a mini round robin tournament with the unseeded teams and see how they go at with bo3 random pack. You'll quickly learn if the teams are competitive enough or not.

I wouldn't want to exclude teams just to make even numbers. This game is nothing without our community, so TIW 2 should accommodate for them if they can field the logistics of the tournament.

This goes on with my point of the current setup being too long. We have hypothetically 8 teams. Split them into two groups. 3 sets of games taking 6 weeks. Semi Finals taking another 2 weeks. Finals probably 3 weeks. That's close to 3 months to finish a tournament with no cash incentives, no physical reward for the time and effort that goes into practicing, giving up weekends and whatever else players have to do.

Assuming a game lasts 20 minutes on average, plus 10 minutes setting up between matches we are left with a nice 30 minute number. Hypothetically we say every match is played. We have (30 x 5) + (30 x 3) + (30 x 5) = 6.5 hours. Times that by 5 and we have 32.5 hours to play this tournament per player average.

6.5 hours is probably a lean amount too, as there are games that can last hours (Gwarz/Europe/Graves/CBA/etc). You expect not only the clans suited to this tournament to play this format, but also the newcomers who might get discouraged after some matches and have to play so many games to finish last.

If the clans reps involved prefer your setup, that's great. I'm hoping I've illustrated well enough the time each team will have to contribute at a minimum per player. I think it's ludicrous to play that many games, others might want that so let's see what the clan reps say.



I disagree with a lot of your methods. Still wish you luck with it, it creates some quality games.

The 4v4 system is not going to work. It should stay 3v3 like the last TIW, with the option to go 4v4 if both clans prefer it. To have every game 4v4 puts alot of strain on the clans involved even in the semi's. The 3v3 system garantues that more games will be played then the 4v4 system and in a big tournament like this we need every assurance the tournament will actually finish or finish on time. To have 4v4 in the semi's or right away from the start will cause alot of delay and laming since its hard to have your best 4 for your map on-line. With 3v3 this will go much more smooth. Even last TIW being mostly 3v3 we had alot of trouble scheduling games because clans could't get their best 3 online at the same time for a particular map.

I agree with Sean's system besides the 1-0 leading if you win your first round. That should be left out. I also would like to see the 1v1 and 2v2 in the tournament. Again 6-8 teams are unrealistic. Even big clans like Vicious have trouble organizing themselves, let alone inexperienced clans who can't compete at the highest level. Last TIW was really a different story with TAOE, LC and Dmz. They still had big names in them or upcoming names. This year around Voobly is too polarized to count on Silent/LC/Dmz, doing so will be a big mistake. The only way they can play would be if Voobly formed a clan containing all the "rest" clans.

Also can't have everything perfect. Any system will have its flaws and I think the 2 veto votes system with the set up of the old TIW with 4 teams will be the best considering the options. The second best option in my opinion would be 3v3 bo5 with both teams getting one veto.

In behalf of s1L3nT, they did have an internal tournament a month ago or so, this basically means they are active enough to deserve a chance in the qualifying stage.

I do understand and yes i have played in tournaments though not one like this and i think thats what you meant. I understand very much because i too had to give up on weekends probably spent more time at the games than anyone else, i certainly didnt spend less time than anyone. Sure it may be easy if your just spectating but i wasnt just spectating i was very hands on with scheduling between clans, trying to stop disputes, map picks, sorting out streamers/casters, vetos, endless messages etc... Sure i didnt play in it but i do understand the effort put in trying to get teams organised along with the time put in.

Of course teams want to put in a strong showing and put out as strong a showing as possible but the games dont have to be played at the weekend and i know already i wont be at has many games as i was for 2015. In fairness i dont think i need to be as i think most fully understand the process plus im sure i will get alot of help. The cut off is really only there if an accommodation cant be met as we have to keep the ball rolling.

With what your suggesting the same problem will still be there with regards teams trying to field as strong a showing as possible with trying to get people online and arrange a schedule of games. Only difference is it will be less time to complete a set plus it will be harder for certain teams to provide a competitive 4v4 or 3v3 team meaning winning some games becomes harder for them


Yeah the veto system worked well. I do get your point with regards teams swapping cba and hero it was a bit of a headache though they where both voted in individually and we cant really argue with the vote. It was all done fairly as im sure you will agree plus there is no guarantee that will be the same again though i suspect both will be voted in again. With that said while it could be argued that set up favoured cb clans there will still always be more bloods involved so even if it is the same the advantage is to the blood clans for the blood games.


I get your point regarding dv8 though i think it would be unfair not to seed them especially after how well they done in the last tourney be it they combined with xcel. I know some players arent still in dv8 now but it would still be a reward for performance in the last tourney. Plus of course and is likely there will be alot of cb involved and they have an advantage over most in it. This is of course if they accept the invite



Yeah there will diffently be a cut off date for the rosters, it will be a case of getting a clan rep to post their team along with maybe akas in some cases if we dont know who they are just to try and avoid smurfs.

Im diffently against excluding any team and of course the set up will change depending on how many want to play. So yeah i think its good idea to have some kind of tournament/play off involving those wanting to play to get into the main groups


Yeah it is a long set up no doubt about it i was exhausted and took a break after it finished lol, sure TIW 2015 took 3 months to complete, with the potential for more teams involved we are talking longer. Though it will still be roughly the same come the main group stage as it was previously be it we have an extra set of games to be played in the group (basing this on a 4 in a group set up).

As mentioned above all the games dont have to be at a weekend, there is a 2 week window to get the games played which should be plenty of time. I do recognise most games are likely to be at a weekend like they where previously. The same duration to complete the tourney will still be there however the only difference to what your suggesting is it will take less time to complete a full set. While i do like the idea your proposing i think it will put smaller clans at a disadvantage to win games as it will be harder to produce a 4v4 competitive team.

The whole idea of TIW came from WIC that had the variety of sets and it was felt mixing it up doing such a tourney in custom so clans can showcase their ability in 1v1s and 2v2s against each other was a good idea. I think the success of the tourney proved it was. The set up still favours and rightly so those who can produce bigger competitive teams. I really feel the variety in the different sets from 1v1, 2v2, 3v3/4v4 really added to the tournament

The tourney your suggesting is one id love to see happen and im sure it would work but i think we might be fool hardy to start making such changes to what was a successful set up. I could be wrong but thats my opinion and yes it will be interesting to see what others think


Well hopefully we can come to some kind of arrangement to have another successful tourney that provides a similar level of quality games

i like how everyone is constructively discussing and dialoguing
this what happen when gentlemen like ben, efkan, and army discuss

Yeah i think having 4v4 from the offset would be a bit of a stretch and just keep it how it was with the option of 3v3/4v4 though i do think maybe adding it come the semi stage would be a good idea. In 2015 we changed the 2v2 till best of 5 come the semi finals so could perhaps have the 4v4 part there instead or as well. Personally id like to see more 4v4s as well and was just thinking of ways we could have more. Really it would just mean having 2 games of 4v4 come the semis so would just mean 1 extra player as the other games including the random decider could still be 3v3 if thats what teams want

IN the semi's or final nobody is going to play without their full strength roster. Life gets bussy, or people experience problems and one guy will always be missing. This was even in the case for 3v3. This will result in massive delay and the more delay the less motivation for people to show up and finish the tournament. The last final almost didnt take place since Dv8 had lost a vital member and both clans felt like the tournament had taken too long and mind you this was a 3v3 set up. You weren't there when we were discussing how to finally finish it and how it almost didn't happen, since we didnt share that with you. Imagine 7th vs Eot in final and one of us is missing a player. You dont want to take those chances, but it is your tournament. This is my opinion. I say keep it straight forward and simple. You know the personalities that walk around in CS. The more complex it gets the more chance the whole tournament will crash and burn. And it is not about having many members its always about having your best members on for a particular map and that problem gets magnified with 4v4's.

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This isnt like a war where making sure your entire best roster is online is almost a must because of how many maps would be played and the format always being a set of 4v4s. You have an option to pick one 4v4 map where you feel most comfortable in which I dont think is that hard to do. Most of the top clans involved in this tournament who will likely make it to the semi finals are also with bigger rosters than last TIW and have higher chances to field more people.

Also as a way to possibly speed up the group stage instead of having 2 seperate individual weeks for each game... I think you should give 1 month to schedule all 3 of your matches whenever you can (assuming we get 8 teams) One team may be less busy at some time and able to fit that schedule with another team who they werent actually scheduled against yet.. if teams need more than the month can always just extend by a bit... but theres no reason in that month time you cant have at the very least 2 of the matches completed and also your 3rd.

The only way I see 4v4 working is if the veto system is suspended just for those games.

or you can extend the map list in tg portion to like 20 maps... last TIW it had 17 I believe.. but finding one map out of 20 to have as a home map that you feel comfortable in as 4v4 should be really easy.. especially for the final 4 teams who all should be highly skilled and well rounded.