Community Forums > Voobly Community > Age of Empires II: The Conquerors > Custom Scenario > General CS Discussions > RCB Map - Community Poll Questions
[1]
Displaying 1 - 14 out of 14 posts
3 User(s) are reading this topic (in the past 30 minutes)
0 members, 3 guests
0 members, 3 guests
What's popular right now:
Word Association (36 users)
CBA 2015 - Bug List (18 users)
AoKTS updates (15 users)
New Blood: YOU DESIGN IT! (15 users)
TIW 2020 Map votes (14 users)
1.6 reward campaing (14 users)
CBA PathBlood 1.8.2 (13 users)
Most active threads in past week:
RCB FFA LEAGUE 6# SIGN UPS (14 posts)
Unable to launch AoE or Voobly (14 posts)
RCB FFA LEAGUE 6# Announcement (5 posts)
Deleting Town Centers / Kings / ... (4 posts)
Network Connection Error [Code: ... (4 posts)
Subject: Complaint About Civiliz... (4 posts)
game crash as soon as it launche... (2 posts)
Post your questions (and potentially answers) that we can put to a community vote via SurveyMonkey/another site.
Examples:
Should the number of gates you can build be limited?
Should bombards be limited in terms of build number/cost?
Should beginning king amounts for civilizations be changed?
Increase Harald on the top store to 16 kings?
Increase all buys on top store buy 1 king for units 9 and above with the exception of Tamerlane and middle purchase?
etc.
As the original creator of the redesigned map from 2011 v2, I will have a role if that amount of money is involved.
Please try to go through previous discussion posts about RCB to see previous ideas. Although I may be involved, I don't want to be the only one making decisions about the map. Currently, Donnie has access to Fair Mod, I do not. He'll likely be the one making changes there. Maybe we'll both do scenario editing changes, we'll see.
One change that absolutely will be done is archers of eyes will be nerfed. They're too strong at the moment. Donnie and I agree on that. Nhoobish was wrong to give them bracer. I was probably wrong to even have them on top store. Their population probably will be reduced from 139 to 120 too.
One change that absolutely will be done is archers of eyes will be nerfed. They're too strong at the moment. Donnie and I agree on that. Nhoobish was wrong to give them bracer. I was probably wrong to even have them on top store. Their population probably will be reduced from 139 to 120 too.
even with buffed archer civis like azects , viki still so weak as they need fast 20 razes + 200 kills to buy subo/martel around 20-25 min ,also need spent 5 kings on vill for imp by that time other civis already more 8 kings
some civi can clear cage martel or subo with just castle units if hight pop
I understand why you have this perspective. You know the map now, you do well on it and don't want to lose the edges you've made for yourself. Different leagues should imply different maps and different playstyles in order to win. You guys should not be using a 2016 League map in 2022.
Think about Fortnite. They're constantly changing the map and in order to stay good, you need to learn what works in the new map. The same principle should apply here.
There will be some changes no matter what.
I honestly couldn't tell you why I added them to the top store, to begin with. I know one of the previous versions of RCB had them. They were not buffed to this extent though. They get bonus attack vs castle units in fair mod + bracer from the map itself.
I'm going to have to look at the previous discussion to see the logic of why they're even on the map right now. Everything on a map should have a purpose. and a potential time to buy it. This was one of the long-running motivations I had when redoing the map. Back in the day, it was just a Henry V war.
Weaker civs are intended to catch up via Mordred at 16 minutes. I thought about maybe giving Mordred earlier... all of those units used to be at 13 minutes instead of 16. It may make sense to either move Mordred or move all of them to an earlier time. Moving all of them too early though makes genitour too strong against certain civilizations (e.g. mowing down Frank Paladin).
If you're Aztec vs Persian it's intended you go Charlemagne. Historically ever since 2011 v2 this has been the case. If you play well you should be able to go Charlemagne to Khan or honestly even Harald. Map even incentivizes this by giving you refunded kings for Charlemagne to help you quick imperial.
Mongol vs Viking- Intended you go Robin. Probably Subo if you work your ass off getting razes and as long as you don't get epically ****ed in terms of the civ you're next to.
This used to be a lot worse before some of the Fair Mod Changes. For instance, giving units like Subo bonus attack vs castles to help force strong civs to not go instant Harald/Khan.
From Nhoobish's guide... not sure which version of the map this is based on.
Archers of Eyes:
This Hero is a slightly stronger Archer. Buying him costs only 2 Kings in the Top Super Store (4 Kings in Bottom Store). This unit is really good early game and strong against Infantry (expect Goths), it also fights well against other Archers (not against Britons Elite Longbowmen). Weak against Cavalry. This Hero stops spawning after a total population of 120. Mostly bought to fill Middle Towers and to get a lot of early kills.
Archers of the Eyes should be a "surprise" but risky move. Risky in that you should have the potential to get rushed and die if you buy them.
It's honestly the player base's fault that they've become so prevalent. Playstyle has honestly become more accustomed to noobs. Literally, every civ should not be buying them. That was never intended. If it was I would've just thrown them on spawn and it'd be something like Soldier Store (if you've ever played that).
Donnie said even Saracens do well with them. That's just dumb. Saracens used to rock the map with Mameluke. They should not be going to Archers of the Eyes.
Analyzing the map is going to be a lot of work. I'm waiting on community feedback to get a good base going before I devote multiple hours of my time to it.
haralds No. we have no problem with haralds actually.
we should discuss other options maybe more.
making edits so we say we have new map not that worth it
ethier make early morder or increase cost of archer sounds good
i ddnt mean only azect vs persa and mongols vs viki ,talking about general out civis
robin vs strong castle units is waste actually and charm not always works
Pretty much if you're a civilization that can go archers of eyes in the beginning you should get that + khan. Seems stupid not to.
One playstyle for at minimum all infantry-based civilizations is wrong. Takes away a lot of the old-school micro that was necessary to beat someone in the beginning.
A lot of implications for potential changes. All of it needs to be considered by community.
Pretty much if you're a civilization that can go archers of eyes in the beginning you should get that + khan. Seems stupid not to.
One playstyle for at minimum all infantry-based civilizations is wrong. Takes away a lot of the old-school micro that was necessary to beat someone in the beginning.
A lot of implications for potential changes. All of it needs to be considered by community.
The scenario currently detects teams already, it could be left for that situation.
I'm honestly having second thoughts about improving anything period (motivation dwindling with personal life stuff). We'll see how I'm feeling in a month or two and if there's good community feedback.
Again, I think it's really stupid that there's basically one playstyle now that you're pretty much forced to do due to Nhoobish changes. Still of the opinion that a new league should have a slightly altered map.
Aztecs: Grant them masonry tech and buff jaguar warriors with increased creation speed and dmg bonus vs buildings.
Franks & Goths: Must start with 4 king
Koreans: Need to start at least with 2 kings, but castle age wagons need to be nerfed or they will smash archer civs.
Persians: Start with husbandry
Also, restore the original imperial age up time from TC
I haven't looked at all the questions. Not sure if he pulled from here or not.
I haven't looked at all the questions. Not sure if he pulled from here or not.[/quoteno i never saw this post i think
Weaken Archers of the Eyes - a stupid unit that I regret ever adding. If you go archers of eyes you should die. The person next to you should go Charlemagne and rush your ass. This sadly just doesn't happen anymore. The person that buys archers of eyes will often enough be able to feed to something like William/Theo. At best they should be going to Subo/Martel. If you just weaken them it should mean very rarely does someone get Theo/William with them. If king amounts are changed this will happen even less.
Alternatively - Removing archers of eyes will be balanced by Mordred changes.
---Having archers of the eyes in you no longer need a lot of the knowledge needed to win in the past. For instance, who wins between celt woad raider and goth huskarl... what if they're imperial... celt/jap, jap/aztec. You literally just need to buy archers of eyes and call it a day. This is indeed nhoobish. It being a noob strat doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. Not as many people play now. Might be a good idea to leave it in. Although it removes a lot of complexity... that amount of complexity is a **** to memorize.
Robin needs more attack against buildings (other than towers/gates like stables, monasteries). Faster movement speed again, increase it bigly. Subotai destroys buildings way quicker than robin, for comparison. Robin should maybe have other boosts. or maybe elite longbowmen should be boosted. Brit vs other archer civs needs comparison. I was brit vs chinese and I outplayed him yet he got subo pretty quick. Pretty dumb.
Improve Mordred spawn time and attack rate - make Mordred available at 14 minutes. Everyone gets it unless you have 20 razes already. In Fair Mod make it so Mordred can't take down gates. At 16 minutes you can choose between Frankish or Genitour. Mordred shouldn't be able to take down the house in mid currently. Just look at those changes and do the same for gates.
Genitour should be buffed ever so slightly. Need to consider Frankish vs Genitour. Frankish never stops power-up. Genitour does. Genitour can be really strong against castle units. Maybe it should have increased movement speed? Pointless in lag though. idk. Maybe slightly buffed armor and increased movement speed. Attack and hp are probably fine.
Super Store - add buy for monk techs for 1 king (needed in situations where you're forced to imperial quickly and can't afford kings for villager). Monk techs will be conversion resistance for skirms and monk range increase + maybe others.
Add Tower of Flies to back of the base again. Nhoobish removed this because it was supposedly too strong against boats? I disagree. Just increase transport ship hp by 1k or so. I'm not sure where in the triggers it is but just adding the tower back in the triggers will give it the previous hp/ap (should be around 100 ap).
Increase all heroes 9 and above (with the exception of Tamerlane) by 1 king.
Mid and global stay at the same king amounts.
Tamerlane - probably fine. More people will buy it with the increase in king amounts. It seems like it's hit or miss. If someone manages to have towers in mid + tamerlane then it's highly likely they'll win. Don't want Tamerlane to dominate too much and I could see it dominating if khan is delayed.
Beli - likely will have to be weakened with the bias towards earlier units. Make it so it's only +90 hp per king.
Changes to starting units should be considered too. I think it's weird the khan is so strong now... I'm uncertain of the scenarios where it's better to buy khan over archers of the eyes. An interesting idea is to make the initial 9 archers of eyes respawnable.
Now a big question is... if you do the above how does gameplay change for civilizations that go full castle/villager? Things may need to be tweaked for those civilizations. That will take a lot of tweaking.
Encourage battle for middle more - that's what I intend these changes to do. If the changes result in really long games though that's no good either.
If the some of the above changes are done I'll definitely help test it out.
It looks like there's a lot more suggestions here too:
https://www.voobly.com/forum/thread/337266
Change the class of the boat in fair mod + the class of unit in the trigger so this removal only effects military units. Should fix that.
Increase Harald Cost - 16/25 want some change (9 No)
Increase Global Cost - 15/24 want some change (9 No)
Increase Theo Cost - 16/25 want some change (9 No)
Increase William Cost - 15/25 want some change (10 No)
Increase Beli cost - 13/23 want no change (13 No)
Limit invincible skirmishers - 16/24 want some change (8 No)
Increase Scout cost - 12/23 want no change (11 No/ No scout in 2v2/3v3)
I stopped looking at the results at Scout. It looks like you left out the question of increasing the cost of Khan.
If I was paid to edit the map / was as zealous as I used to be I would do the following changes. This was fun to think about but I just can't afford to spend the time implementing all of the below.