Sup fellas. Googled RoC today for the hell of it. Have to say SF surprised you are still bitter about RoC destroying you dudes. That turned into a golden era where we went on like 3 separate 120 win streaks (second time to dethrone TU [nautica & co], which I was part of). Good times. I'll have to forward this to Chad (Shrapnel) as I'm sure he'll get a kick out of you thinking he cheated.

As for top players, the game was a lot more about team work than people gave it credit for. Thus, while very few in RoC were thought of as "top 5 players," we still completely reigned on ladders for a very long period (3 years or so?) and were generally feared as a group due to our excellent teamwork, which was mostly a factor of Jaydeezd to be honest. That dude was a great communicator and we really indoctrinated new recruits into our way of thinking about the game.

At any rate, good you guys are still around. Hope everyone is still doing well. Sup Gravity.

This thread = win.

What up Grav!

As Chad's good friend and roommate for many a year, I can tell you he never cheated. Funny thing is, many of the old RoC people have become lifelong friends IRL and we still play games together. As a matter of fact, Vision, Shrap, and myself were all playing SC2 and LoL recently, along with some lesser known RoC/KFC/TDS people from ages passed.

Hey there...I am not sure who you two are, but you should notice I did include Shrap in my top 5. The reason I am a bit delusional about RoC is because they were a mid ladder clan for a very very long time. I played against Jay, Reload (thought his name was Recoil in an earlier post), and Shrap countless times, and to be honest, they were easy matches for us.

Then all of a sudden the 3 of them became extremely good, all 3 of them were present in the match when they finally beat us. Most of the games didn't come down to teamwork either, but they simply out aimed us, which to me is peculiar as most players who become top players don't take that long to mature.

RoC did not destroy TFR...head to head statistically it would have been around 10-1 for TFR. We lost to RoC once and disbanded. As I said, by the time RoC dethroned us, most of the TFR people had moved on to RS and other games. We were the last #1 clan in R6 before the sequel came out.

I will say though, that I was bitter after RoC beat us, and because the other TFR players had no motivation to go on, me and ThinK (aka Suffice / Otherhalf) immediately joined DAWGS in an attempt to get back to 1st one last time before quitting. I played in two more matches for 1st in DAWGS against RoC and lost both times. I don't know if DAWGS got really good after that, but at the time they weren't a match for RoC yet (much love to the DAWGS crew though, they were awesome people).

During our time, the stiffest competition before RoC improved out of no where, was definitely ZBN and not RoC or DAWGS.

I joined RoC a few weeks or so after the TFR match, coming from TDS by way of, funny enough, ZBN. RoC was my home for years after that, and like Kurt (Vortex) said, many of us have been IRL friends ever since.

At any rate, because you disbanded so promptly, you might find it funny to know that Shrapnel/Gonja quit/went completely inactive shortly after that match as well. When I joined it was just Jaydeezd, Reload, JiBBer and me. We added EasyDate and some of the ZBN guys like Bunghole and Effect a little later. At any rate, RoC had a strong history for about 2-3 years after when you played them SF that you are probably unaware of.

At any rate, Shrapnel and I, funny enough, despite our long histories for RoC in R6, never really played much together in R6. We ended up becoming IRL friends and playing other games like CS and now LoL together. I can tell you there is no way he cheated. Bro is just straight up dominant at gaming.

Hey Silver. My memory is a bit blurry from way back when, but IIRC it was myself, Shrapnel (Chad), Jaydeezd (Joaquin), Reload (Josh), and one other (maybe Ganja?) that were in that match for the #1 on clanladder, both Chad and myself played from my room. Chad had formed the clan during a late night play session on my 56k several months earlier. Vision joined after that initial run, after a few of the original people had moved on to other games. But RoC was a 2nd gen clan, everyone at that point had competed under one clan banner or another. A bit of trivia, I brought Chad to a LAN at a friend's house in Vegas where he was introduced to R6 and continued playing under the KFC clan name for a few weeks before runs with TDS and others.

From that run up to #1, I can tell you what I do remember. Practicing, drilling, map layouts with lots of scribbles on them, and long hours of tactics discussion on Roger Wilco on a daily basis. That's also when I got DSL at my house (I remember because I had to pay for it), but that was definitely a huge advantage when used properly. Chad was one of the first people to ever take e-sports seriously, and he ran the clan as if it were a professional team. I have to agree with Vision, the entire strategy was always based off of a team effort. Everyone had to trust everyone else to cover their spot. In the end, we had played so much that our individual skills were high and we had some good 1v1 fights, but it was always the team strategy that won the matches. Chad was the man with the plan, and we executed it. After we took that #1 spot on CL, we went and did the same thing on MPlayer with ease.

And to contribute to the original discussion: I really don't remember everyone's names, I was never good with them, but there were a lot of teams that we had a lot of fun with. TFR, TDS, DAWGS, and others. But in competition, TFR was definitely our initial target. I'll avoid naming individuals since my memory is so terrible, but I've seen a lot of the 1st and 2nd gen players and teams that I respect mentioned here.

I also ran the RoC website for years, I'll see if I can find some old backups of it for nostalgia purposes.

Sup vision and vort ! good to see you guys.

Vision was one of the 1st Gen RoC's Silver , you may not recall. Great player, and Great guy,

Also vision to correct your statement there, I was in before Bun9 and easydate as well...I was in RoC then went into the military and came home and rejoined and that's when I matched with you actively. I joined with Gonja, because he was in THT and I used to follow him around. I was also very close friends with Josh (reload) it's why I used the name RoC_Loaded...and he was RoC_Reload. Most of my time in RoC I went by Loaded.

You're right. You were in and out so much it was hard to track you. I don't think you were in at the point I joined, though I think you were before for a stint.

Exactly, I was in a little before I think you joined. I was in when Gonja had joined up. I played for a while , but then I joined TFR and went into the Airforce if I recall. When I came back you where there and considered one of the leaders or high up in the clan...and you guys let me back in and I stayed with you for quite some time, but wasn't always super active. all in all I was RoC a long long time, and it's what i consider my home team.

And I agree with you Vis, on the comments about RoC, not all of us are considered the best but as a team their is without question no doubt we we're a powerhouse of a clan.

Jaydeezd wasn't amazing per say in a 1v1 or Reload, but as a team we had Teamwork that was very hard to beat.

In fact, I am glad to hear about RoC becoming a clan that reigned for so long, and also that none of you cheated but just took your time before becoming the solid unit that you became eventually. If we had been dethroned by any clan less than spectacular in the long run it wouldn't have been justified.

I do remember speaking to people in DAWGS even after I moved on to AC and asking them about some of the players still in R6. I think I remember them telling me about Shrapnel going inactive.

In any case, my top 5 list is across an entire 2.5 year span from when the game came out, and in my opinion, I don't think the ones at the end were better than the ones from an earlier generation. I remember I took a 3 month hiatus for summer vacation in June '99 and came back around Sep '99 to find SSBO in #1 with Marine calling the shots. I started playing in pick up games and feeling that the competition was too easy, much easier than in '98 when I played against players like Grimm or Powerdigm. Then I was picked up by SSBO which went on to form the core of TFR. In TFR, I really felt like we weren't even trying most of the time and wins just came easily.

Point is maybe, just maybe, the prime of R6, when there were the most competitive players around in volume, was before that...like in '98 to early '99. Thinking about it this way does take some of the lustre away, because I really don't like winning after everybody has left. But a good counter point may be that some of the original 'legends' were still around and competing...oh well...who knows lol.

Yeah, who knows. It's actually probably the opposite, with the later players having the advantage of seeing all the tricks used by older players, and building on it. I know what you mean though. There was a time in RoC where I literally felt we had no competition outside of maybe 1 or 2 teams, and even they could rarely keep it close. Once you get feared enough I think people just start playing bad against you due to nerves, and you play even better because you know it. R6 was very mental and momentum based like that.

See, here is the thing though...when you think about sports, you feel that the statement you made is right because at any given point in time, there are always masses of people competing in any popular sport. However, in a computer game, people move on to other newer games.

So if you are playing in a generation where there were 50,000 people playing, and you were the best, as compared to a generation with only 5,000 playing, even though it was later in time, who is really better competitively?

The argument that later players learn from all the old tricks is also arguable. I was a really old school player when I came back to join SSBO. I saw how R6 evolved from the basics to all the campy tactics, 3shot prefire to 1shot prefire even, and as the game evolves newer players also lose out on certain skills which older players possess because they have no chance to really learn or use those skills. Players became so accustomed to pre-fire, corner strafing, and sitting there doing single shot fire into a corner that they never learned how to 'dance' in a point blank gun fight. Strategies improved, but basics got worse.

Marine and them were surprised by the difference in the way I played compared to most players around at that time. I think I almost gave them a lot of heart attacks because of the difference in style. I died a lot to pre-fire, but during that latter generation I knew that if I had someone out in the open with me, especially one of the newer players, they were sitting ducks as they didn't know how to do close combat properly.

This is why I wonder whether the later generation were really better overall. If I could only beat 85% of the old school players in an open gunfight previously due to aim, then with the later players I could beat 95% of them in the situation simply because they aren't put in that kind of scenario often enough to have practice.

Eh, I don't know. R6, to be honest, was never a game that was big enough to foster a huge elite community. Because of that, there's a good chance that no one ever really got to the pinnacle of skill achievable in games like Counter-Strike or Starcraft with over 100K+ people playing and no one completely dominant team. It would be unheard of in those games to ever go on 100 game win streaks, because the sheer level of competition was higher, yet there were teams in R6 that did it, because taking a game seriously was a new concept back then.

I honestly liked that period the best in my gaming time though, because I felt like it was a level playing field. Nowadays you have thousands of people willing to play 12 hours a day into a game. In R6, I was able to dominate on talent and intelligence, often playing one or two hours a night after school. It wouldn't be possible anymore with how much people are willing to invest in a game.

I agree, and now a days you can't dance, the PING factor doesn't exist. I'm 30mb cable and that gives me little edge now. Back then if you whe're DSL you had leaps and bounds over ISDN or 56K

What are you guys even talking about? Kurupt? Tragedy? Snipesman? Decko? Garbage.... Me and Nitrous raped them almost every match..

Sorry just had to post that I got an email saying that R6 is back. Kind of got me excited.