Heres the proposed Idea or list I think for each setup in Europe for 'fair spots'
2v2 - Spain England vs Greece Africa. or Spain France vs Italy Greece.
3v3 - Greece Italy Africa vs Spain France England
4v4 Norway Greece Italy Africa vs England Ireland France Spain.
Some others can be suggested too but what people see as fair is all relative. What I listed there someone else can think is unfair.
isnt part of the skill of Europe being able to adapt to position/civ? Won't making fixed spots allow people to just practice the same exact order over and over again and make it really redundant?
Well if an agreed upon spot list was made for tournaments/important matches like these... both teams have the chance to know what to expect and how to play and theres many different strategies you can use... I very much doubt if Eot played vs ViCiouS in the same spots as we played last TIW the game would be identical.
Point of a non random europe map being made is for fairness and making sure no one is losing a game based the spot setup that was created by random.
Yeah Nickel that's the big boring downside to fixed spot Europe. I don't begrudge someone for wanting a fair map, it's just simply not as enjoyable as the map should be.
Speaking real here, Europe shouldn't have been involved in TIW and we should have just tried to setup some bo5 TG Europe sets with interesting civs and some ground rules to avoid bad spots (like restart available if Scandi/Ireland same team). It's only XceL, Eot_ and ViCiouS from CS who can put forward a good quality 4v4 Europe team, maybe 7th if they had Andy, Fran and Batichoto + friend.
If that happens I'll be playing regularly for sure.
1. Fair spots. Ireland/England/France/Spain vs Norway/Greece/Italy/Africa is the only permutation I'd throw my weight behind. Room for discussion on England/Norway/France/Greece vs Ireland/Spain/Africa/Italy.
2. a) Whether clans are permitted to choose Europe Random instead of fixed spots if they choose map as Home Map.
b) Restarts allowed for either side if unhappy with positions? Or would players prefer ground rules such as restart if Norway and Ireland are same team, or Africa/England in a 3v3 scenario (beware you must have a short timer for this - player's shouldn't be able to restart because they scouted a player out and are not confident in playing against them).
3. If yes to No. 2, does Fixed or Random take effect in a decider.
I think you're lucky enough this won't be an issue as the games scheduled for tomorrow are not going to dramatically affect the semi final placements.
11 unfair positions in europe? now that's a noob thing to complain about, im quite disappointed actually, didn't think a cs player's mind would go that far, but you did it, you delivered it, good stuff lad.
Random is more fun. But fixed spots are more suitable for a competitive environment clearly, as you can plan strats etc. It's not such an issue in 2v2 but in 3v3 And 4v4 spots are absolutely important.
It just has huge potential to be unfair, at least in Rm etc you will always have 2 flank and 2 pockets in 4v4 even though it's 'random'.
I think you should just leave it to the discretion of who picks The map. It's not like it's unfair to have equal spots so I don't see The problem.
Random is more fun. But fixed spots are more suitable for a competitive environment clearly, as you can plan strats etc. It's not such an issue in 2v2 but in 3v3 And 4v4 spots are absolutely important.
The scenario itself is not suitable for a competitive environment due to not being consistant and fair, giving fixed spots only get rids of a small per centage of issues that affect competitive gaming. I reckon that you should only be able to call a re when one of your team is completely isolated (solo North Sea+North Atlantic or solo Mediterranean+South Atlantic).
2v2 - Spain England vs Greece Africa. or Spain France vs Italy Greece.
3v3 - Greece Italy Africa vs Spain France England
4v4 Norway Greece Italy Africa vs England Ireland France Spain.
Some others can be suggested too but what people see as fair is all relative. What I listed there someone else can think is unfair.
Point of a non random europe map being made is for fairness and making sure no one is losing a game based the spot setup that was created by random.
Speaking real here, Europe shouldn't have been involved in TIW and we should have just tried to setup some bo5 TG Europe sets with interesting civs and some ground rules to avoid bad spots (like restart available if Scandi/Ireland same team). It's only XceL, Eot_ and ViCiouS from CS who can put forward a good quality 4v4 Europe team, maybe 7th if they had Andy, Fran and Batichoto + friend.
If that happens I'll be playing regularly for sure.
1. Fair spots. Ireland/England/France/Spain vs Norway/Greece/Italy/Africa is the only permutation I'd throw my weight behind. Room for discussion on England/Norway/France/Greece vs Ireland/Spain/Africa/Italy.
2. a) Whether clans are permitted to choose Europe Random instead of fixed spots if they choose map as Home Map.
b) Restarts allowed for either side if unhappy with positions? Or would players prefer ground rules such as restart if Norway and Ireland are same team, or Africa/England in a 3v3 scenario (beware you must have a short timer for this - player's shouldn't be able to restart because they scouted a player out and are not confident in playing against them).
3. If yes to No. 2, does Fixed or Random take effect in a decider.
I think you're lucky enough this won't be an issue as the games scheduled for tomorrow are not going to dramatically affect the semi final placements.
Should be random spots, maybe with a restart each team before min 5.
edit; not belittling you, just highlighting how Europe should not be treated like other bloods and scens.
It just has huge potential to be unfair, at least in Rm etc you will always have 2 flank and 2 pockets in 4v4 even though it's 'random'.
I think you should just leave it to the discretion of who picks The map. It's not like it's unfair to have equal spots so I don't see The problem.
The scenario itself is not suitable for a competitive environment due to not being consistant and fair, giving fixed spots only get rids of a small per centage of issues that affect competitive gaming. I reckon that you should only be able to call a re when one of your team is completely isolated (solo North Sea+North Atlantic or solo Mediterranean+South Atlantic).