I have recently been asked so what europe map do we use as in the one with fixed spots or the one with random spots. The answer is simple whoever picks europe as their home map gets to pick which version they would like to use.
If you are picking the map with fixed spots you need to pick fair spots. If someone could list what spots are fair that would be great
Theres basically 2 approaches for somewhat 'fair' spots, north vs south or east vs west for 3v3. For 4v4, however it has to be north vs south because of the 2 islands with no track to mainland.
I beleive sides are fair, so something like
Spain/England/France vs Africa/Italy/Greece for 3v3. Gives one entry point on water, 2 mainland spots, and 1 island spot for each team.
in 4v4 something like italy/greece/norway/france vs spain/africa/england/ireland
People will have spots they prefer so it's a difficult one, but this seems quite fair ot me.
Obviously we want to get some sort of agreement from the opinion of a few europe players. I think having fixed spots makes for a fairer game and im sure most agree? Lets here a few other opinions on what spots are fair cause we dont want to get to a stage where there is a huge disagreement on what spots are fair otherwise we will have to use random giving spots a lucky edge. We dont want this being a divisive subject
I like Europe Random to be Europe Random. If unfair positions are such a drama, give each team two restarts for the map which must be used before 90 seconds game time or something as a draft.
I speak solely for myself and not my clan with this opinion.
I just think whoever picks the map should get the choice over which map to use. But set spots are clearly fairer... it's not like RM with random spots in the way it's generated somewhat fairly. Some spot combinations ARE unfair.
Feels like it will make Europe less interesting and fun to play. The permutations are what gives life to Europe, taking that away to make a favourable setup is zzzz.
Let the majority speak, if they want it then it should be implemented. It hasn't been an issue previous to this, and such I won't play a fixed version of the map.
Well, if it's up to who chooses the map, why does it matter?Under the same logic we could just implement random spots in every blood, but it would ruin the balance/fairness of the maps, as it has the potential to do in europe. (Such as getting all the islands in a 4v4 setup, if your set hinges on europe and you lose because of spots it would really suck)
Well if the majority want it as random then its gonna be random same as with fixed, i like the idea of 2 restarts if its random. It might end up being a case of if both want fixed spots then its fixed spots and vice versa. But if majority want random spots then i think it would be a good idea to have 2 restarts.
Ben if it was fixed spots as in thats what the majority wanted what spots would you suggest is fair?
I suggested two restarts as a draft. Not going to argue with you, if you're entitled to choose positions then do so.
I'll break it down for you Army1 somewhat, but ultimately there's no strictly fair spots in Europe (as per se Smosh/Khans etc.), they all play differently from one another:
-You'd start by splitting Scandi and Ireland. Both spots are more or less heavily reliant on securing water until they can safely transport off at a minimum.
-You'd next look at splitting Africa and England since they're islands with shallows as mainland crossings, and you can be trapped if you lose water. These two positions play completely differently to one another though.
-I'd look at splitting France and Italy next. I find them the two worst positions in Europe as you're essentially the middle of all the action and vulnerable to water and land, yet lack a lot of room to build out.
-Then I'd split Spain and Greece, since they have the better resources and space. Spain has ability to be more versatile, Greece is way more protected from everyone.
I don't honestly think you can come up with a fair equation for 4v4. For 3v3, splitting England/France/Spain and Africa/Greece/Italy is ideal. But Ireland and Scandinavia just **** everything up. I personally think the positions we played against Eot_ last TIW is as fair as it gets. Rick's suggestion for 4v4 isn't that bad, but Norway/France/Greece/Italy is significantly better than Ireland/England/Spain/Africa.
I see doing side vs side in the cba/blood matches as the exact same as doing set spots in Europe.. its made to be fair and it also allows you to strategize and put the boom players or the rush players in positions that work for them. Even if you give 2 restarts for Europe theres no guarantee that the spots will be good in the end.
Think its better to get a list of positions people see as being fair in Europe and playing these type of competitive games in setup spots.
P1 Greece
P2 Spain
P3 Italy
P4 England
P5 Africa
P6 France
P7 Ireland
P8 Norway
Medfiafire somehow doesnt let me upload files or archives that include files with an .scx extension anymore, so I had to use a different hoster.
If you are picking the map with fixed spots you need to pick fair spots. If someone could list what spots are fair that would be great
I beleive sides are fair, so something like
Spain/England/France vs Africa/Italy/Greece for 3v3. Gives one entry point on water, 2 mainland spots, and 1 island spot for each team.
in 4v4 something like italy/greece/norway/france vs spain/africa/england/ireland
People will have spots they prefer so it's a difficult one, but this seems quite fair ot me.
Some combos i believe are fair for 2v2
Spain/England vs italy/africa
Spain/france vs italy/greece
I speak solely for myself and not my clan with this opinion.
Let the majority speak, if they want it then it should be implemented. It hasn't been an issue previous to this, and such I won't play a fixed version of the map.
Spain/france vs italy/greece
i could see these spots as fair, but i'd also prefer random spots
Ben if it was fixed spots as in thats what the majority wanted what spots would you suggest is fair?
I'll break it down for you Army1 somewhat, but ultimately there's no strictly fair spots in Europe (as per se Smosh/Khans etc.), they all play differently from one another:
-You'd start by splitting Scandi and Ireland. Both spots are more or less heavily reliant on securing water until they can safely transport off at a minimum.
-You'd next look at splitting Africa and England since they're islands with shallows as mainland crossings, and you can be trapped if you lose water. These two positions play completely differently to one another though.
-I'd look at splitting France and Italy next. I find them the two worst positions in Europe as you're essentially the middle of all the action and vulnerable to water and land, yet lack a lot of room to build out.
-Then I'd split Spain and Greece, since they have the better resources and space. Spain has ability to be more versatile, Greece is way more protected from everyone.
I don't honestly think you can come up with a fair equation for 4v4. For 3v3, splitting England/France/Spain and Africa/Greece/Italy is ideal. But Ireland and Scandinavia just **** everything up. I personally think the positions we played against Eot_ last TIW is as fair as it gets. Rick's suggestion for 4v4 isn't that bad, but Norway/France/Greece/Italy is significantly better than Ireland/England/Spain/Africa.
Think its better to get a list of positions people see as being fair in Europe and playing these type of competitive games in setup spots.