maybe after 1k kills, every 500 kills a player gets a siege onager? i'd put like a place for them to spawn and it would make the game more interesting and more micro management
all changes are acceptable to me except the following,
- Koreans: spawn timer speeded up to 11 (before: 12)
i don't recall i ever struggled with koreans population (only struggled with saracens) simply because ranged units with 150 HP don't die easily. this will make koreans unnecessarily stronger.
- Britons: Castle age: 250 (before: 300), Imperial age: 550 (before: 500)
you have to realize that delaying imperial age by 50 kills does not null out making castle age 50 kills earlier because the kill rate you'll get at castle age will make that imp delay meaningless. better just leave it as it was
- Celts: added Chain Mail Armor
in my opinion, celts are the best rushing civi in cba, and automatically researching them +1 armour at start will make them even better, but still unnecessary in my opinion.
with these changes i can see celts becoming a nightmare for saracens with a good player
i hope you based all the changes on 4v4 games and not mirror 2v2 stuff people play
oh and CS sucks please all retire
-Britons; I don't see why their kills should be changed. At 250 castle age, dealing with possible mass archers of 5+3 that early seems too much...
-Byzantines; even though is small, I don't think they need it
-Celts; really disagree with this one, celts can already get kills from range units if flanked correctly, if anything Aztecs should get this buff
-Franks; seems really interesting, but would need a lot of testing to be proven right
-Persians; even though lower pop may seem good idea, it would take them forever to get to imp in most cases and you would be forced into make units too. I would suggest if possible maybe increase their pop cap as they age up e.g feudal 52 castle 56 imp 60
-Teutons; I don't like slowing down their spawn, but 500 kills for imp is ok
is giving goths + huns walls a bad idea guys ?
not with that gay mod cuz id like it to be officiel
Goths are an offensive civ and they already have the paliside to stone wall thing in front of their castle for the basic defence. Their wall in imperial is basically the cheap mass unit spam Id say. That mod is really unnecessary imo. Huns already have stone walls by default.
maybe after 1k kills, every 500 kills a player gets a siege onager? i'd put like a place for them to spawn and it would make the game more interesting and more micro management
I would prefer not to make too many changes at once as that might end up the wrong way. When the current changes are good and smooth then theres still room for more versions with more changes. Ill keep your suggestion in mind for any potentional v2x
all changes are acceptable to me except the following,
- Koreans: spawn timer speeded up to 11 (before: 12)
i don't recall i ever struggled with koreans population (only struggled with saracens) simply because ranged units with 150 HP don't die easily. this will make koreans unnecessarily stronger.
-Byzantines; even though is small, I don't think they need it
- Koreans: I had trouble with a low pop often enough simply because they are so massive and hard to control during a retreat from saracens, goths or japanese for example. Other than that if you have a look at the old byzantine spawn which was 10 seconds while the old koreans spawn was 12 seconds you will see that the change is justified imo since byzantines also have 150 hp, better armor than koreans, are faster moving (81 tiles per minute vs 72 tiles per minute) and are easier to control. With this version both spawns are at 11 seconds. In addition to that the only really useful thing koreans have are their war wagons, their imperial units are the worst out of all civs.
- Britons: Castle age: 250 (before: 300), Imperial age: 550 (before: 500)
you have to realize that delaying imperial age by 50 kills does not null out making castle age 50 kills earlier because the kill rate you'll get at castle age will make that imp delay meaningless. better just leave it as it was
-Britons; I don't see why their kills should be changed. At 250 castle age, dealing with possible mass archers of 5+3 that early seems too much...
- Britons: I made these changes because Chinese and Mayans both cage earlier than britons. Both of them have thumbring, chinese even have chemistry by default and all three civs play fairly similar in cage. That one extra range does not change that much anyway. Now they all cage at the same time. Other than that I disliked the fact that Britons basically reached Imperial age within a few minutes once they hit Castle age and their Imperial is a massive advantage over that from mayans and chinese. There are a few other civs that hit Imp fast after hitting cage like Goths, Aztecs, Franks and Teutons. Franks and Teutons Imperial has also been delayed since their Imperial is also a massive advantage but the other two civs dont have a very strong Imperial. Goths can spam units fast, but the units are still pretty weak. Now Britons stay in Cage for 300 kills in contrast to the 200 kills before.
- Celts: added Chain Mail Armor
in my opinion, celts are the best rushing civi in cba, and automatically researching them +1 armour at start will make them even better, but still unnecessary in my opinion.
with these changes i can see celts becoming a nightmare for saracens with a good player
-Celts; really disagree with this one, celts can already get kills from range units if flanked correctly, if anything Aztecs should get this buff
- Celts: Thats exactly what I wanted to achieve because other than their fast speed they are actually a pretty bad rushing civ. We dont have to argue that Huns and Persians are better. Teutons have more hp, way more attack and more armor. A full pop Teut rush is more dangerous than a full pop celt rush. Goths have their high pierce armor which makes them almost invulnerable to Castle arrow fire. Japanese have the highest damage/per minute and kill castles super fast plus they can easily fight any defending units. Vikings also deal more damage, had more armor and have their regeneration ability which makes them equally strong at rushing imo. Whats left is just Aztecs, Byzantines and maybe Koreans and yes, theyre worse at rushing.
Celts benefit from Chain Mail Armor only until cage anyway, after that they are exactly the same as before.
Celts also dont have many units they can evenly fight in a high level game. I admit that many noobs playing an archer civ will easily get trapped by a good celt player but in higher level games most players keep their archers very tight together which will turn the celts into food most of the time. From all the melee units there is just Goths they can easily fight, they already have trouble with Huns, Viks and Franks. The rest is definatly better than them in a direkt fight. The armor is supposed to change this until they reach cage which was usually later than most civs.
-Franks; seems really interesting, but would need a lot of testing to be proven right
- Franks: Yea, barry decided to try them out yesterday in a test match and I think the changes are fair. Thats based on just one match though and it was barry playing () but I think in most cases the changes will be good.
-Persians; even though lower pop may seem good idea, it would take them forever to get to imp in most cases and you would be forced into make units too. I would suggest if possible maybe increase their pop cap as they age up e.g feudal 52 castle 56 imp 60
- Persians: If any I would turn those numbers around as they get stronger with each age. 60 in feudal, 56 in castle and 52 in imp. I reduced their pop because there are plenty of civs that have no chance at defending a full pop pers rush if pers has the base next door and keep sending every 4 respawning eles over. Im sure you will agree that having pers on your own team is ALWAYS an advantage while pers on your opponent team is ALWAYS a disadvantage for you. A slightly lower pop might change this for a few matches.
-Teutons; I don't like slowing down their spawn, but 500 kills for imp is ok
- Teutons: Well, 8 seconds is the fastest spawn in CBA and there are not many civs that have it. Strong units like elite teutonic knights really shouldnt have the fastest spawn in this map. Just to name a few examples: Celts, Japanese, Turks and Viks all have a 9 second spawn, so why should Teutons spawn at 8 seconds. Same reason why I slowed down mongols spawn by 1 sec. Imp was increased because they also usually hit imperial within a short time after hitting cage and their imp also is one of the best.
Good to know that not everything appears to be a bad idea
I may add that those changes are obviously just an attempt to balance the civs a bit more and are based on a couple of suggestions from a topic a year ago. They are not necessarily permanent. If a change turns out to be very bad during actual games played, it can still be reversed/addressed in future versions.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone compiled the average time it takes for each civ to reach Cage and Imp & has anyone calculated the KD ratio for each civ after they hit Imp?
I'm sure you know the current CBA was the result of about 20-30 updates of progressive balance tweaks. That process worked well. It has been several years since any significant change to the map.
Now you want to make dozens of changes. How you could possibly predict the outcome and balance of such a massive overhaul is beyond me.
I applaud the minor bug fixes but if this is about re-balancing the current version you can't do it this way. If you want to make an alternate version I'm all support though.
Did you see what happened when they tried to re-balance RM?
Edit: I will give it a try when I find the time though.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone compiled the average time it takes for each civ to reach Cage and Imp & has anyone calculated the KD ratio for each civ after they hit Imp?
it doesn't take much to reach imp, time spent to reach castle is longer than time spent to reach imp for most civis
exceptions are spanish, turks, persians
this is assuming that most people didn't raze and are fighting with unique units, razes can change that depending how you and enemy play so i can't say
I'm sure you know the current CBA was the result of about 20-30 updates of progressive balance tweaks. That process worked well. It has been several years since any significant change to the map.
Now you want to make dozens of changes. How you could possibly predict the outcome and balance of such a massive overhaul is beyond me.
I applaud the minor bug fixes but if this is about re-balancing the current version you can't do it this way. If you want to make an alternate version I'm all support though.
Did you see what happened when they tried to re-balance RM?
Edit: I will give it a try when I find the time though.
i like yr post !!!! but i also feel replacing cba old one with this is noobness!!!!
http://www.voobly.com/match/view/12604079
http://www.voobly.com/match/view/12604171
not with that gay mod cuz id like it to be officiel
maybe after 1k kills, every 500 kills a player gets a siege onager? i'd put like a place for them to spawn and it would make the game more interesting and more micro management
- Koreans: spawn timer speeded up to 11 (before: 12)
i don't recall i ever struggled with koreans population (only struggled with saracens) simply because ranged units with 150 HP don't die easily. this will make koreans unnecessarily stronger.
- Britons: Castle age: 250 (before: 300), Imperial age: 550 (before: 500)
you have to realize that delaying imperial age by 50 kills does not null out making castle age 50 kills earlier because the kill rate you'll get at castle age will make that imp delay meaningless. better just leave it as it was
- Celts: added Chain Mail Armor
in my opinion, celts are the best rushing civi in cba, and automatically researching them +1 armour at start will make them even better, but still unnecessary in my opinion.
with these changes i can see celts becoming a nightmare for saracens with a good player
i hope you based all the changes on 4v4 games and not mirror 2v2 stuff people play
oh and CS sucks please all retire
-Byzantines; even though is small, I don't think they need it
-Celts; really disagree with this one, celts can already get kills from range units if flanked correctly, if anything Aztecs should get this buff
-Franks; seems really interesting, but would need a lot of testing to be proven right
-Persians; even though lower pop may seem good idea, it would take them forever to get to imp in most cases and you would be forced into make units too. I would suggest if possible maybe increase their pop cap as they age up e.g feudal 52 castle 56 imp 60
-Teutons; I don't like slowing down their spawn, but 500 kills for imp is ok
I'm cool with the rest.
not with that gay mod cuz id like it to be officiel
maybe after 1k kills, every 500 kills a player gets a siege onager? i'd put like a place for them to spawn and it would make the game more interesting and more micro management
- Koreans: spawn timer speeded up to 11 (before: 12)
i don't recall i ever struggled with koreans population (only struggled with saracens) simply because ranged units with 150 HP don't die easily. this will make koreans unnecessarily stronger.
- Koreans: I had trouble with a low pop often enough simply because they are so massive and hard to control during a retreat from saracens, goths or japanese for example. Other than that if you have a look at the old byzantine spawn which was 10 seconds while the old koreans spawn was 12 seconds you will see that the change is justified imo since byzantines also have 150 hp, better armor than koreans, are faster moving (81 tiles per minute vs 72 tiles per minute) and are easier to control. With this version both spawns are at 11 seconds. In addition to that the only really useful thing koreans have are their war wagons, their imperial units are the worst out of all civs.
you have to realize that delaying imperial age by 50 kills does not null out making castle age 50 kills earlier because the kill rate you'll get at castle age will make that imp delay meaningless. better just leave it as it was
- Britons: I made these changes because Chinese and Mayans both cage earlier than britons. Both of them have thumbring, chinese even have chemistry by default and all three civs play fairly similar in cage. That one extra range does not change that much anyway. Now they all cage at the same time. Other than that I disliked the fact that Britons basically reached Imperial age within a few minutes once they hit Castle age and their Imperial is a massive advantage over that from mayans and chinese. There are a few other civs that hit Imp fast after hitting cage like Goths, Aztecs, Franks and Teutons. Franks and Teutons Imperial has also been delayed since their Imperial is also a massive advantage but the other two civs dont have a very strong Imperial. Goths can spam units fast, but the units are still pretty weak. Now Britons stay in Cage for 300 kills in contrast to the 200 kills before.
in my opinion, celts are the best rushing civi in cba, and automatically researching them +1 armour at start will make them even better, but still unnecessary in my opinion.
with these changes i can see celts becoming a nightmare for saracens with a good player
Celts benefit from Chain Mail Armor only until cage anyway, after that they are exactly the same as before.
Celts also dont have many units they can evenly fight in a high level game. I admit that many noobs playing an archer civ will easily get trapped by a good celt player but in higher level games most players keep their archers very tight together which will turn the celts into food most of the time. From all the melee units there is just Goths they can easily fight, they already have trouble with Huns, Viks and Franks. The rest is definatly better than them in a direkt fight. The armor is supposed to change this until they reach cage which was usually later than most civs.
oh and CS sucks please all retire
I may add that those changes are obviously just an attempt to balance the civs a bit more and are based on a couple of suggestions from a topic a year ago. They are not necessarily permanent. If a change turns out to be very bad during actual games played, it can still be reversed/addressed in future versions.
I'm sure you know the current CBA was the result of about 20-30 updates of progressive balance tweaks. That process worked well. It has been several years since any significant change to the map.
Now you want to make dozens of changes. How you could possibly predict the outcome and balance of such a massive overhaul is beyond me.
I applaud the minor bug fixes but if this is about re-balancing the current version you can't do it this way. If you want to make an alternate version I'm all support though.
Did you see what happened when they tried to re-balance RM?
Edit: I will give it a try when I find the time though.
it doesn't take much to reach imp, time spent to reach castle is longer than time spent to reach imp for most civis
exceptions are spanish, turks, persians
this is assuming that most people didn't raze and are fighting with unique units, razes can change that depending how you and enemy play so i can't say
It won't replace the current version right away
I'm sure you know the current CBA was the result of about 20-30 updates of progressive balance tweaks. That process worked well. It has been several years since any significant change to the map.
Now you want to make dozens of changes. How you could possibly predict the outcome and balance of such a massive overhaul is beyond me.
I applaud the minor bug fixes but if this is about re-balancing the current version you can't do it this way. If you want to make an alternate version I'm all support though.
Did you see what happened when they tried to re-balance RM?
Edit: I will give it a try when I find the time though.
i like yr post !!!! but i also feel replacing cba old one with this is noobness!!!!