Community Forums > Voobly Community > Age of Empires II: The Conquerors > Custom Scenario > General CS Discussions > #ReviveCS - Proposal
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I'd like to address some key aspects of our beloved game and propose ideas to invigorate and sustain its player base.
Firstly, it's evident that certain updates, such as the 1.6 patch, have stirred debate within the community. While change can be unsettling, it's essential for the game's evolution. Adapting to new features is crucial, as resisting change risks stagnation and player attrition.
Recent reintroduction of the Overall ladder has reignited player interest, encouraging exploration of many maps and striving for higher ranks. However, I believe we can further expand the competitive landscape by introducing two new ladders: Random TG/1v1 and CBA Hero WK (adding, dont replacing)
Random TG is currently active for play, but its appeal is limited due to the lack of an official ladder. And CBA Hero should please have a new ladder exclusively for 1.6 patch. Introducing these ladders would accommodate the diverse preferences of players without excluding existing CS enthusiasts. I myself propose to provide the civilization balances, after discussing it with the top CS players.
Similarly, CBA Hero, a popular map, does not receive official recognition within the NPL ladder. To strenghten CS's population, I propose reconsidering atleast the rating of CBA Hero in NPL, and even CBA v21, we may have another CBA generation in the future. This adjustment could attract more players to the platform and serve as a gateway to competitive CS.
NPL is their lobby, their community. There's no reason to send them into unknown territory without a clue of how to play. NOTE: They are very welcome, but it still hinders the inflow of players besides leading them to play with strangers instead of their own people.
Furthermore, I share concerns about the declining popularity of CS and RM. While Voobly remains a stronghold for competitive play, the advent of AoE DE and AoE HD on Steam presents new challenges. However, ranked scenarios remain a unique feature of Voobly, distinguishing it from other platforms.
Additionally, events like the incoming Herofest and CBA v21 tournaments demonstrate the potential to rekindle interest and attract both new and returning players.
In conclusion, I'm optimistic about the future of CS and the broader Voobly community. By embracing change, promote inclusivity, and leveraging our unique strengths, we can ensure the longevity and vibrancy of our beloved game.
Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and suggestions.
Best regards,
JT
In the latter case this has failed for various reasons -- things your normally wouldn't argue about in our flesh and blood world. Like any organization we have a hierarchy on Voobly, we have protocols and rules you have to follow, we have laws to comply with and of course no one will have access to finance, human ressources or any other classified information (source code, root passwords, database access, detailed information how Anti-Cheat or Banning works etc.). Behavior was another issue, Confidentiality was a really major problem, Privacy and Security awareness was in most cases non-existant and every constructive debate or conversation has result into rage quitting / endless drama / ignorance. And here we talk about people who claim to have an university degree or working for the big tech companies (IBM, MS, Google, Apple).
The internet has changed a lot in the past 17 years, also the laws and other regulations that affect Voobly now. Exactly like Steam and any commercial game community, also Voobly is a PG13 community. We now have many privacy regulations in effect in most Western countries and we of course enforce the highest standard (that covers all others), which is in our case the EU-GDPR (European General Data Privacy Regulation) which has become just another apple of discord.
No, you don't get access to the IP-addresses of other players. No, you don't look up their
See what I mean? And we haven't talked about CS yet. So yeah, regarding CS we are running in circles. Below my personal favorite Top 10 list with original quotes from our former CS Leads and people claiming this position:
So yeah, I am open to everything. Anyone interested and willing to do the job will get his fair chance. But please: none of the nonsense above. I am still waiting to read the first written concept on how to make CS great again without coming up with something, that has utterly already failed in the past.
Your list of quotes from past CS leads highlights some frustrating patterns we've seen. It's disheartening when solutions don't seem to make a difference, but your openness to trying new ideas is encouraging.
It's important to me that the concerns of the CS community are heard and addressed. I'm fully committed to advocating for CS and its users, and I'm eager to be part of finding solutions. Anything you need, whether it's feedback or assistance, just say the word.
I believe that by working together and keeping an open dialogue, we can find solutions that work for everyone in the CS community on Voobly. It's going to take time and effort, but I'm optimistic that we can make positive changes.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and being part of this conversation.
Best regards,
JT
Can't expect much from negative minded individuals. But you're not only that, also pessimistic.
CS can have a large amount of growth if subjected to the right environment of changes and effects. I believe one of the reasons Voobly altogether is seeing a downfall is largely because of its User Interface.
The UI is really unconvincing and not a pleasure to the mind. And there are technical issues and difficulties like FP which sometimes never fixes.
Also forums on voobly, stuff like ladders, discussions etc are not easily accessible. The main issue comes with the fact that if a user is facing a problem, it's very hard for them to search for a solution. This could be fixed by just creating pop-ups and prompts, for example if one finds themself fp, a dialogue box appears and lists them solutions in a user friendly way so they would be interested to read it.
The main issues lie within pleasing the users who are new to Voobly. Also promoting NPL as a whole where people can easily play games and not worry so much about grinding hard to win. CS being promoted in such a place could really bring in users who are ready for the grind to get to a better level. I'm not saying we repeat the old ideas that didn't seem to work out. But atleast just put in a ladder for custom scenario maps and some could be promoted there.
Also if a few "trusted" individuals who could be given access to NPL to be given the responsibility of promoting CS would be a great idea, given that those individuals are not present for bashing noobs.
I have many more ideas listed in my mind. I am also ready to act on them if possible
11 mad cuz Chris quoted u 10 times
CS can have a large amount of growth if subjected to the right environment of changes and effects. I believe one of the reasons Voobly altogether is seeing a downfall is largely because of its User Interface.
The UI is really unconvincing and not a pleasure to the mind. And there are technical issues and difficulties like FP which sometimes never fixes.
Also forums on voobly, stuff like ladders, discussions etc are not easily accessible. The main issue comes with the fact that if a user is facing a problem, it's very hard for them to search for a solution. This could be fixed by just creating pop-ups and prompts, for example if one finds themself fp, a dialogue box appears and lists them solutions in a user friendly way so they would be interested to read it.
The main issues lie within pleasing the users who are new to Voobly. Also promoting NPL as a whole where people can easily play games and not worry so much about grinding hard to win. CS being promoted in such a place could really bring in users who are ready for the grind to get to a better level. I'm not saying we repeat the old ideas that didn't seem to work out. But atleast just put in a ladder for custom scenario maps and some could be promoted there.
Also if a few "trusted" individuals who could be given access to NPL to be given the responsibility of promoting CS would be a great idea, given that those individuals are not present for bashing noobs.
I have many more ideas listed in my mind. I am also ready to act on them if possible
In the latter case this has failed for various reasons -- things your normally wouldn't argue about in our flesh and blood world. Like any organization we have a hierarchy on Voobly, we have protocols and rules you have to follow, we have laws to comply with and of course no one will have access to finance, human ressources or any other classified information (source code, root passwords, database access, detailed information how Anti-Cheat or Banning works etc.). Behavior was another issue, Confidentiality was a really major problem, Privacy and Security awareness was in most cases non-existant and every constructive debate or conversation has result into rage quitting / endless drama / ignorance. And here we talk about people who claim to have an university degree or working for the big tech companies (IBM, MS, Google, Apple).
The internet has changed a lot in the past 17 years, also the laws and other regulations that affect Voobly now. Exactly like Steam and any commercial game community, also Voobly is a PG13 community. We now have many privacy regulations in effect in most Western countries and we of course enforce the highest standard (that covers all others), which is in our case the EU-GDPR (European General Data Privacy Regulation) which has become just another apple of discord.
No, you don't get access to the IP-addresses of other players. No, you don't look up their
See what I mean? And we haven't talked about CS yet. So yeah, regarding CS we are running in circles. Below my personal favorite Top 10 list with original quotes from our former CS Leads and people claiming this position:
So yeah, I am open to everything. Anyone interested and willing to do the job will get his fair chance. But please: none of the nonsense above. I am still waiting to read the first written concept on how to make CS great again without coming up with something, that has utterly already failed in the past.
Random TG was responsible for a lot of CS activity in past 8 years.
We never banned any CS players from NPL. Unless you are not actively playing in MS, you can enter NPL as CS player.
Also Member Pluses can enter NPL, even if they are banned from playing in NPL. Enrollments are open, anyone can apply for it and contribute to the Voobly project.
You are forgetting Microsoft's product lifecycle. What are we doing in three years, when MS announces EOL for DE? We should be happy to have Voobly and keep it alive.
If im a new player and i want to play an old game am i gonna go look for an obscure website or just buy it on steam?
Instead I decided to build up a technical support team in 2013, a technical knowledge base and we focussed on answering threads at the Voobly forums, where players were actually seeking for help. From technical issues, over general Voobly issues to general complaints -- besides the game complaints we had from beginning. I had a great time and recruited many good people over all the years. Until 2015 I was in charge of the Technical Support Team and the Voobly servers, so yeah, I was technical staff only.
In 2015, I was asked / offered to take over Voobly Administration after staff changes and my first official act was introducing corporate structures. We started with a matrix organization where all roles and responsibilities were explained in detail and strictly enforced. Within a few weeks it was clearly communicated to everyone, who had which responsibility and the order to stay out of anything else + who is the person in the hierarchy they must report to. As we already know this from reorganization measures in companies, we started separating the wheat from the chaff, people who refused to work with us or rioting against us were asked to leave / fired.
A few months later we announced our CI, mainly a document that explains our values and goals, but also a document with protocols and rules. One important change was the way, how we looked at the Voobly project, especially the role of our "moderators" at that time. With more than one hundred complaints every year no one on Voobly was denying, that the current moderator program is a big problem for everyone. We have spent hundreds of hours every year until 2019 to train our staff in so called orientation meetings. The message: we are a helping organization, we want to make Voobly a fun place for everyone and we are not the police of Voobly. And we wanted to get off this "Wild West" environment where moderators could pretty much do anything and then get away with it. It was a complete disaster. Our lesson's learnt after 36 months: people don't change, unless they are forced to. Our consequences: the moderator program was retired, all moderators were fired.
Instead of re-inventing the wheel, I did what all pragmatists would do in that situation. We introduced the Member Plus program, something Microsoft retired in 2006 when they were closing the Zone. The idea was the same, a voluntary program where anyone interested could join and contribute to the project. Unlike the old moderator program, Member Pluses are not part of the Voobly Team. They have privileges on client only, but at the forums and our website they are normal players only and their only task is to help players and keep clean the lobby chat. For anything else, they are just like normal players. The forums must be used for game complaints, general complaints, general support and technical support. They are here to point the community to the right direction. It's not their job to deal with any of those things.
Former staff I recruited for technical support in the past was now in charge of these forums; the new Voobly Team. It worked! The complaints finally stopped, the negative discussions about corrupt moderators and abusive staff on AoeZone and other places outside of Voobly was over. The gasp of relief was later reflected by many players within the community, who were suddenly sharing their thoughts with us.
In 2020 we introduced our new Voobly compliance, thanks to a lawyer's office and a good friend of mine. We updated the client and the website to comply with those laws in most Western countries, focussing on US and EU law. We updated our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy and our Code of Conduct to reflect these changes. Voobly 1.0. Finally it was possible to properly work with each other.
In the following years we released a new website called MPHQ, the main hub of the Member Plus program. We merged four websites into MPHQ. Our technical knowledge base (aka Voobly HQ), the project website of Community Patch 1.6, the voluntary program website which was Confluence based at that time and our bugtracker / internal forums. In 2023 we even released a tournament tool at MPHQ, to allow players to easily organize tournaments at Voobly.
People who want to contribute to the Voobly project must enroll as Member Plus and will later be accepted as Voobly Team members. Similar to opensource projects, where trust must be built up first, so we get to know this person first, who wants to work with us.
For many years I was doing the same on Voobly, I was actually doing at work. I was restructuring companies who couldn't solve their organizational problems on their own.
So yeah, it was a long journey. I hope this helps everyone to understand my role here at Voobly. We don't do things, without explaining how the Voobly project and the community would benefit from any proposed changes. We keep up the Status Quo and don't come to decisions, that would expose the Voobly project to unforeseeable risks. And please trust me, I am doing Change Management for many, really many years already. Changes are best applied in many small pieces and tiny steps.
Thanks for your time and reading this.
I think there's a valid point. Not sure why negativity seems the resort for you there
If im a new player and i want to play an old game am i gonna go look for an obscure website or just buy it on steam?
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