Community Forums > General > Suggestions & New Game Support > The New Player Lobby needs a rework.

The New Player Lobby needs a rework.

 [XceL]Donnie


Group: Gold Membership
Join Date: 9 December 2008
Posts:5829
Posted 7 February 2019 - 3:20 am
I think there are several problems with the current new player lobby.

Apart from automated banning, players have little reason to transition to a different lobby. Most people want to be able to join a game quickly, and at their skill level. If AoC had more players an intermediate lobby would work, but we just don't have enough people to support it.

Auto-banning people from the new player lobby isn't a good solution either. People can just keep their rate below the cut off to stay in the lobby for an extended period, while others who played a few games in MS or may not have known about the ban beforehand suddenly find themselves stuck in the regular lobby with few other noobs. In addition it breaks up groups of people who are starting out or are trying to get their friends to play a new game with them.

I think the following would benefit Voobly and new players:

Remove the auto ban.
-People should have the ability to choose when they're ready to move to the normal lobby A automated system cannot judge each individual's situation very well. A poor system does more harm than no system at all.


Players are allowed 100 rated games in the new player lobby (including separate accounts).
-After 100 games they can still play in the new player lobby but they will not be allowed to join rated games.

-Change the color of the names of players who have reached 100 games to red or somehow signify clearly to other people that the player has reached that milestone.

-If people want to continue having their games rated they can join MS and play on the Intermediate Ladder.

Make rating range a required setting in all rated games in Medieval Siege (Make sure it doesn't interfere with spectators).
-Currently if you sort by rating high to low you find games [You must login to view link], but if you search for low rated games you find a wall of [You must login to view link]

Games that are set for 0-1500 rating should automatically get a tag on the game room similar to the streaming icon that says beginner friendly or something. [You must login to view link]

We should focus on making the transition to medieval siege easier - not making the new player lobby more comfortable for them. Zero gamers get kicked out of most games in MS because it's hard to know what game rooms are suited for them.

Reward noobs who make the switch from NPL/intermediate ladder with a week of silver or something to congratulate their progress/incentivize them to actually switch.

Finally, remove the option to play custom scenarios in the new player lobby. Unlike RM, there simply isn't enough players to warrant splitting noobs and regular players.
Link | Reply | Quote
 +[email protected]


Group: Server Administrator
Join Date: 3 October 2007
Posts:8238
Posted 7 February 2019 - 9:07 am
Hi mate
Remove the auto ban.
-People should have the ability to choose when they're ready to move to the normal lobby A automated system cannot judge each individual's situation very well. A poor system does more harm than no system at all.
The current auto-ban is based on ratings and certain game policy violation events such as PT or resigning won games. I wouldn't call it a poor system, since it auto-detects Point Trading and people, that just want to have easy games. Complaints about noob-bashers are almost non-existing, compared to what we had before. Before the auto-banning we had a similar situation at the NPL complaints forums compared to CS. No weekend without three pages of complaints.

Players are allowed 100 rated games in the new player lobby (including separate accounts).
-After 100 games they can still play in the new player lobby but they will not be allowed to join rated games.
We already did that and as you probably can imagine, players found a nice way around this. They host a rated game showing the RM-Beginners ladder, and a few seconds before they launch, they quickly switch to unrated. The result were three pages of complaints after the weekend.

-Change the color of the names of players who have reached 100 games to red or somehow signify clearly to other people that the player has reached that milestone.
We had something else in mind which is already on the milestone on our dev list. The idea is to allowed rated games on the RM-Beginners ladder only. The option or ability to play unrated games would be completely missing, which then would not require to keep the players out of the lobby. First we have to figure out a fix for people who join as spectator and then switch to playing, before this can go live. Another important fix is changing the logic, how games are rated. Since we still have many people, that resign won games to keep their ratings low, we want to introduce a "team won" logic, which means, that it won't matter, if they resign before the game is over. If their team wins, they also get the points. That would solve most of our problems.

-If people want to continue having their games rated they can join MS and play on the Intermediate Ladder.
Both, the NPL ladder, as well as the Intermediate ladder are shown in the MS lobby, so those players do not appear as zero-games players, as certain players are incredibly afraid of smurfs.

Make rating range a required setting in all rated games in Medieval Siege (Make sure it doesn't interfere with spectators).
The problem is the ability to switch between spectating and playing. We are still discussing the logic of our code, as it's causing problems. It would be much easier here, having the source code of the game.

-Currently if you sort by rating high to low you find games [You must login to view link], but if you search for low rated games you find a wall of [You must login to view link]
The idea was keeping NPL a non-competitive lobby, people are supposed to get familiar with the client first and how it works, e. g. using the AKA-rate and how to keep people out by ignoring them etc. and of course playing their first games, without getting rushed in Dark-Age / Feudal-Age already. The biggest problems are players creating new accounts almost daily. Currently we sum up their rating and ban them, once they reach the rating cap. If they resign games, we sum up the number of resigned games and ban them.

Games that are set for 0-1500 rating should automatically get a tag on the game room similar to the streaming icon that says beginner friendly or something. [You must login to view link]
Players that switch from NPL to MS usually drop to 1100 - 1300 before they start winning any games in the MS. I like the Tag idea, but it does not solve the problem with smurfs, that still cause a lot of frustration in MS. We also caught people streaming "troll games" where they wall off new players etc.

We should focus on making the transition to medieval siege easier - not making the new player lobby more comfortable for them. Zero gamers get kicked out of most games in MS because it's hard to know what game rooms are suited for them.
You have the same problem in NPL or CS though. If you host the first 20+ games yourself, you won't be kicked anymore.

Reward noobs who make the switch from NPL/intermediate ladder with a week of silver or something to congratulate their progress/incentivize them to actually switch.
That's a good idea. We will look into it.

Finally, remove the option to play custom scenarios in the new player lobby. Unlike RM, there simply isn't enough players to warrant splitting noobs and regular players.
It's on our dev list already.
Link | Reply | Quote
 [sT]MassKilller


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 7 August 2017
Posts:91
Edited 8 February 2019 - 1:47 pm by [sT]MassKilller
Quote:
both, the NPL ladder, as well as the Intermediate ladder are shown in the MS lobby, so those players do not appear as zero-games players, as certain players are incredibly afraid of smurfs.

Nobody allows them in their games. It dosent matter if they have 1000 games in NPL. They do not have the skills to play in MS right away. I personally kick them and get them kicked out of the room if I see one in the room. ( Also not alot of people play in the rooms hosted by new NPLers)

Quote:
The idea was keeping NPL a non-competitive lobby, people are supposed to get familiar with the client first and how it works, e. g. using the AKA-rate and how to keep people out by ignoring them etc. and of course playing their first games, without getting rushed in Dark-Age / Feudal-Age already. The biggest problems are players creating new accounts almost daily. Currently we sum up their rating and ban them, once they reach the rating cap. If they resign games, we sum up the number of resigned games and ban them.

Make it a competitive lobby to prepare them to play in MS.

Quote:
Players that switch from NPL to MS usually drop to 1100 - 1300 before they start winning any games in the MS. I like the Tag idea, but it does not solve the problem with smurfs, that still cause a lot of frustration in MS. We also caught people streaming "troll games" where they wall off new players etc.

Ofcourse they lose 10 20 games in a row. NPL level is alot lower then MS.
Quote:
You have the same problem in NPL or CS though. If you host the first 20+ games yourself, you won't be kicked anymore.

Not alot of people play in their rooms.


Link | Reply | Quote
 dontstayafk


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 30 April 2018
Posts:41
Posted 9 February 2019 - 12:17 am
All the voobly need a update, visual and technical. He works fine, but can be better, i think.
Link | Reply | Quote
 dontstayafk


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 30 April 2018
Posts:41
Posted 9 February 2019 - 12:31 am
But i think voobly is like San Andreas Multiplayer, wich dont update since 2015 but aways have players.

SA-MP 0.3.7 Released :: Posted by SA-MP on 1 May 2015
Players Online: 14513
Link | Reply | Quote
 [PTBNS]fabking


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 22 July 2012
Posts:936
Posted 9 February 2019 - 12:15 pm
Nobody allows them in their games. It dosent matter if they have 1000 games in NPL. They do not have the skills to play in MS right away. I personally kick them and get them kicked out of the room if I see one in the room. ( Also not alot of people play in the rooms hosted by new NPLers)

.

I don't agree with this NPL players are playing in MS with games of "13xx/14xx" in the description.
I always find a game ready to play with blackforest 13xx/14xx in the description, I too was intimidated to move from NPL to MS but now it doesn't matter because MS is my default game room.

however I do agree that they should be moved to spectator or kicked in 15xx/16xx/17xx games
Link | Reply | Quote
 [MM]jizzy


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 13 June 2013
Posts:339
Posted 9 February 2019 - 12:38 pm
I still think 1 lobby and provide a function to filter out unwanted game types is the way to go with such a small community. It would also encourage people to dabble in different game types. You can block higher level players from joining new player games. We need to bring the community together.
Link | Reply | Quote
 [sT]MassKilller


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 7 August 2017
Posts:91
Posted 9 February 2019 - 2:57 pm
I don't agree with this NPL players are playing in MS with games of "13xx/14xx" in the description.
I always find a game ready to play with blackforest 13xx/14xx in the description, I too was intimidated to move from NPL to MS but now it doesn't matter because MS is my default game room.

however I do agree that they should be moved to spectator or kicked in 15xx/16xx/17xx games


Those 13xx 14xx have decent amount of games in MS. I am talking about a player who has alot of games in NPL and 0 games in MS. Basically we call a player 0 gamer here in MS if he has 0 games in MS. Dosent matter if he has 20 wins and 0 loses in NPL. You have 0 games in MS you are a 0 gamer.
Link | Reply | Quote
 MsNyara


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 12 May 2018
Posts:7
Edited 9 February 2019 - 8:16 pm by MsNyara
To be honest I've never liked that we have two different lobbies to start with. On HD for example there is virtually no issues for the intermediate level transition, since rooms just specify the elo range they are expecting or just label "noobs only" and team games are balanced toward distributing varying elos (in fact there are a lot more of team games lobbies in HD than Voobly for the same).

The only issue in HD are the 1550-1650 elo guys with <5 games who you really don't know much if they are intermediate or noobs yet, or a pro's smur-f, but usually they are considered low-end intermediate (unless they specifically say they are noobs or new account) when distributing elos for team games and that usually works fine.

Basically elo is exactly designed to solve this kind of issue (for folks with 5> games), having two different elos for the same game just makes a hard-line division between noobs and skilled folks, leaving no space for the middle way, who usually struggles starting in Main Lobby or constantly smur-f to stay in the new players lobby, since there is no place for him to play decent games in Voobly. A good share of the new Main Lobby newcommers (who can actually play there) are high-end HD players than Voobly-made actually.
Link | Reply | Quote
 ['RB']ZottenDree


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 15 December 2016
Posts:306
Posted 9 February 2019 - 8:24 pm
[MM]jizzy wrote:
I still think 1 lobby and provide a function to filter out unwanted game types is the way to go with such a small community. It would also encourage people to dabble in different game types. You can block higher level players from joining new player games. We need to bring the community together.

Its how it used to be and it worked 11
Link | Reply | Quote
 [MM]jizzy


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 13 June 2013
Posts:339
Edited 9 February 2019 - 9:36 pm by [MM]jizzy
Yeah basically u set the room type as new player, intermediate, expert, dm or cs. Could even include an aok room type.
Players can filter the rooms they want to see. Then you can block certain rating levels from new player and intermediate rooms.
Link | Reply | Quote
 [mouz]jju4nn


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 11 May 2017
Posts:179
Posted 10 February 2019 - 12:52 am
im agree . it needs to be deleted = v
Link | Reply | Quote
 GoldenDome


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 7 February 2019
Posts:5
Posted 10 February 2019 - 5:30 am
I personally have seen a couple players who are not supposed to be in the New Player lobby. They are in mid to advanced levels, but like to create new accounts to play in New Player lobby. They would win 10 team games to earn like 50 points. Then they would lose intentionally to random other players in 1v1 games. They would always stay at 1600 level and keep doing that.

I'm not sure what Voobly can do anything about it. Not sure if there is any rule on that. No point trading, no cheating. Just fooling around and interrupt other players and other games. We just do not want to play with other players who are not at your own level, either much higher or much lower.

Just some observations.
Link | Reply | Quote
 GoldenDome


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 7 February 2019
Posts:5
Posted 10 February 2019 - 5:33 am
I do not think what Donnie said would work. At least for some people.

The people I mentioned before do not even care about points. They get fun for beating other real new players. So they can feel the thrills about beating other players. They may have some hard time beating other advanced players. But they are cowards and want to hide and play in New Player lobby.

Those people can keep creating new accounts and always enter as new players.
Link | Reply | Quote
 Blood_Drainer


Group: Standard Membership
Join Date: 31 January 2018
Posts:15
Posted 10 February 2019 - 8:45 am
this is completely true! i recently got banned from it in spite of not playing it in for a few months, and that sucks!
Not because i want to play with noobs and/or bash them but because there are soo many modes which are played exclusively in the NPL lobby like Jurassic, Vampire Revenge, Zombie, VUBG, CBA ttm (which is fun to play at times which CS lobby nobody is interested) etc. etc
Also if you want to try out some new maps which arent RPG or TD then NPL is the only place to go, CS lobby people do not wish to build, RM DM players are well, just too serious. Like i myself have made this map but cant play it because nobody joins my room in CS lobby and RM DM lobby, only in NPL does it fill up fast. Then even rooms with other modes like Age of Chivalry, Portugese Civ Mode, etc. etc. never fill up anywhere except the NPL lobby
And basically in banning me from NPL, Voobly has banned me from several modes and that definitely decreases the amount of fun i have playing here
So please remove that ban!


Link | Reply | Quote
[1]2345
Displaying 1 - 15 out of 75 posts
Forum Jump:
3 User(s) are reading this topic (in the past 30 minutes)
2 members, 1 guests

Most active threads in past week: