Moral high ground

 PantsRDragon


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 12:51 am
Last month pretty much the entirety of Eot and some outsiders flamed damian and accused him of cheating for using a tower mod that allows you to click the tower when normally by default the game doesn't allow you to do so. Normally I wouldn't have complained if it was an Eot member who did this, I would just ask for it to be blocked or make everyone aware of it. Actually I already was aware of it because of mazon and didn't care to make forum posts to make everyone else aware, I thought most old school players already knew all about it. I personally believe that just blocking it when discovered is enough, AoC isn't a game with millions of players and every person who plays it is valuable.

I mentionned in damian's defense that there is a wall mod that does a pretty similar thing and this is what eot replied:

"Someone deleted it because they are tired of the drama but here you go bringing it all back and starting it all over as you did in that thread to begin with... You say that now but but we all know you guys would gang up on Charlie or whichever Eot if tables were reversed... difference is some Eots can be seen as 'assholes' or '**** talkers' same can be said about 7th except you can add Cheaters to that list as well. This has nothing to do with my blind rage or hate for damian, normally I just shrug things off but when you realize the magnitude of what Damian could be doing with this cheat and that hes not even shy to admit he does it and acts proud... its pretty disgusting. I'll make it pretty clear again... there are basically no similarities between a short walls mod and a big invisible tower mod. Short walls is maybe like 1 notch above short trees... and the big tower advantage is 10 notches above both of them as far as the advantage goes and how it actually effects games. There is no counter for the big tower mod, theres many for a short walls mod which barely does any difference to begin with."

Now as most of you know, or maybe you didn't notice since I'm not very important to 7th's roster and 7th is strong without me as long as the core is there.

As I was watching the recorded games on fast speed, one thing grabbed my attention right away in the khans 2v2 match, possibly because I've played the map a lot. One thing I do and always take into consideration as player 2 is the walls on the right side. When the enemy sends units to kill a wall on the right side of red's base, if the group isn't big enough to kill the wall right away, I try to kill the group hitting the wall when the wall is low HP. What this does is that it wastes the opponent's time hitting the wall and the wall is left immune to any further attacks until the corner wall is destroyed - this means that even if the wall is 1 health, I don't need any units to defend it until the enemy kills the corner wall also which offers no opening in the base and the only purpose of this would be to kill the 1 hp wall. The enemy will waste considerable amount of time to get the first wall low, then lose more time to kill a 2nd wall to open the first one and lose a lot of tempo in the game doing nothing.

The reason I explain this is because the fact that p4 hit p2's wall with no problems even though it was unclickable because it was low health and the only way to do that that I'm aware of is to use a modified walls mod, (short walls). So I went ahead and installed the mod and tested it and this is the result.

This is when you can't click the low health wall:
[You must login to view link]

This is when you kill the corner wall, you can once again click it:
[You must login to view link]

This is with the mod p4 used:
[You must login to view link]

Again, I personally don't give a **** and the reason I posted this is because even during TIW Eot continued harassing damian and constantly take the moral high ground when you do the exact same thing. You will say that damian made the mod himself where as your guy downloaded it on voobly and that's a very lame excuse. Both mods allow you to do something you shouldn't be able to do and damian didn't use it in a tournament like Eot did.

~3:40 and 4:10, normally he wouldn't be able to attack the same low hp wall multiple times.

http://www.voobly.com/match/view/13814635
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 xEddy


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:04 am
tl;dr
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 PantsRDragon


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:07 am
xEddy wrote:
tl;dr

[Eot__]ApeCheater
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 [TotalA]Novaya__


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:11 am
+1!!
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 RedRuM__


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Edited 16 March 2016 - 1:17 am by RedRuM__
You must login into Voobly to view image


That akward moment when you fall of your high horse. Hypocrisy at its best.
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 [ViCiouS]Marauder


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:27 am
I mean it's not really the same since that mod is available to everyone and a simple deleted wall can expose that low hp one but I see where you are coming from.
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 [Eot_]Polaris_


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:30 am
its not the same at all... and most people had buried that Damian issue already... plus if Damian wasent caught a while ago he would of gone into TIW using the cheat he himself made in these tournament games.

I dont think you can even put Drew n Damian in the same level as far as 'fairness' in game goes. Damians been a known cheater in the past from AoK.. Drew's always been known as being a fair player.
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 RedRuM__


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Edited 16 March 2016 - 1:44 am by RedRuM__
If you consider it cheating to being able to hit towers when they are fully blocked then it is also cheating being able to hit walls when you should't be able to. It is not rocket science. Also considering the map in question being khans this should be classified as a super duper cheat by eot's standards, but it isn't since they are the ones using it. As always.... Eot's hypocrisy knows no bounds. Reminds me of that Gwarz game when Drew camped the **** outa the game and then raged at me for doing the same back.
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 PantsRDragon


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:48 am
its not the same at all... and most people had buried that Damian issue already... plus if Damian wasent caught a while ago he would of gone into TIW using the cheat he himself made in these tournament games.

I dont think you can even put Drew n Damian in the same level as far as 'fairness' in game goes. Damians been a known cheater in the past from AoK.. Drew's always been known as being a fair player.

You think it's not the same? I personally think it's exactly the same, both mods allow you to hit something you're not normally supposed to be able to hit. If I was p2 in that game I would of left my right side open because I would assume he can't click the wall. Again, I don't care at all about this, I made the post because I saw how you continued to harass damian during the tournament and constantly act morally superior. Like I said earlier, every aoc player is valuable because it's a small community.
I mean it's not really the same since that mod is available to everyone and a simple deleted wall can expose that low hp one but I see where you are coming from.

What do you mean deleted wall? If I'm p2 I would specifically want that wall to be low health and not delete the corner wall so you can never kill it unless you also kill the corner wall. I would also not need to defend it and someone with the mod could enter in my base with 40 units after opening a 200 hp wall that they normally shouldn't be able to open.
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 [ViCiouS]Marauder


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:52 am
Yep my bad I got it messed up. Still not the same.

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 [Eot_]MoCro


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:53 am
;stern http://www.voobly.com/gamemods/mod/587/Short-Walls/Overview

its an official mod. Cant compare this at all
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 [Eot_]Polaris_


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:56 am
how did you see anyone harass Damian? If damian was talked **** to it was because he said/did something first. To my knowledge you werent even there unless you were just around on a smurf account?

Anyway you're trying to compare Damian creating his own mod which no one else knows about and using it in a game which can also alter any number of different things from walls to towers to actual special units to be bigger/smaller without anyone else knowing... to a mod which is actually advertised and used by many on voobly at the same time.

Also you're comparing a player never been accused of cheating or hacking in his life to one accused many times and who has actually cheated/hacked in the past. Somehow you're trying to get heat off Damian which isnt even really there anymore. The way he was cheating has already been modded and fixed to my knowledge so theres no more issue or fear of it happening (atleast from what I understand)
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 23RaidingParty


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:57 am
so you're saying Farahavar wouldn't have used short walls if he played khans? he's a pioneer, of course he would!
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 RedRuM__


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Edited 16 March 2016 - 2:01 am by RedRuM__
;stern http://www.voobly.com/gamemods/mod/587/Short-Walls/Overview

its an official mod. Cant compare this at all

Sorry. We had forgotten how hard it is to make a mod official. This changes everything. Note the sarcasm. You can't hide behind "official" since alot of mods are made by fans and uploaded. We can do the same for towers and call it official.
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 [Eot_]ForgiveMe_


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Posted 16 March 2016 - 1:58 am
I will say briefly that I am sorry that this was an issue in this game... I do not use short walls nor was aware it was being used... we have been testing since this thread was brought to our attention and can see that the chances of hitting that wall are very slim.

The huge difference is that short walls is a game mod that is advertised and promoted by Voobly to be used in games. What Damian was doing was modifying his own personal data against others knowledge to gain a hidden advantage. The tower mod could be only one of many modifications.

I do not condone using short walls and am pretty mad it was used in this game. But please don't compare the two like they are equal comparisons... what Dave and Sean said pretty much sums up my view as well.


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