Community Forums > Voobly Community > Other Games > Midtown Madness > Feedback & Comments: Midtown Madness 2 - Anti-Cheat v1.0

Feedback & Comments: Midtown Madness 2 - Anti-Cheat v1.0

 _HoMeR_


Join Date: 8 December 2008
Posts:313
Posted 9 December 2010 - 8:57 am
lol sk8, come and play some bus man
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 _MID_LOLLY__


Join Date: 3 October 2007
Posts:8
Posted 9 December 2010 - 6:31 pm
he can't voobly keeps disconnecting him every 5 minutes when he logs on :( we thought it was a router problem but think he waiting on his isp to see if there is a problem there :)
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 _BBD_WESTY


Join Date: 3 October 2007
Posts:3
Posted 10 December 2010 - 3:54 am
Ok here is what I Feel * I dont know if anyone care lolz * But I have to express this , I am not much of a smart man to put my words in fancy conversation Although I will try my best to convey my message through .

Person A
Been playing mm2 For 10 Years So obviously sensitive about game
Donated Money to impliment AC so no one get accused like from last 10 years and can have fair games , And can actually get appreciated That they actually have skills.
Spend nights after nights to test this AC shyt.
And then Replying every single question with atmost professional Approach he can to Get every one on same page.
Helping every player on voobly to Get in to game fixing there connection problems staying over night .
And guess what, like all of you guys he is full time university sutdent as well and work for his money .
Now person B
Ok Obviously passion of the game is there been playing from long time .
Invested Alot on previouse version of plateforms . so sensitive about game as well
First post *Doesnt agree with AC* *Then post after Post Just doesnt want to buy AC will Help*
Now Person C
Ok again Passoinate bout game been playing from long time . so Sensitive about game
Now complaining about AC and having doubts on AC that people can get through it .
Now Person D
Ok Again passionate about game been playing from long time .
Supporting friends , Because got some frustrated reply from Person A ( Who just got an awarded of not being trusted after all the efforts he inputed )

Ok If I would be on place of Person A , I will literly break my KB and Kill All of you or my self lolz .. But then again thats me not Person A .
Bottom Line We have one thing in Common We all love this game AC or Not AC why worry ? Let Players who like to satisfy them selves BY AC play with AC and if you are not then why worry ? You been playing without AC for ever lolz Why Do you even care if AC is there ?
It is very simple Accept it Or deny it. Just play if you desire, no one would force you to play .
And as homer said if you dont trust him just send your feedback to other moderators ( who doesnt know anything about mm2 ) This Post was to improve AC not to Compare Moderators or Plateforms . As I said get out of past you will not get anything out of it . Unless you just want to repeat the whole thing again break this limited community Once again.
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 Michaeveli


Join Date: 3 October 2007
Posts:143
Posted 10 December 2010 - 4:22 am
Wow, look at all these cheaters complain, kidding. People, let's be optimistic and stay on topic. From my experience, The A/C feature is harmless and it seems that it is working, there may be a little lag but not so noticeable. You might notice a change in people's speed, because with A/C on - everyone's bus should be running at nearly 60-75 fps, making the game more stable.

You don't have to support this feature, it just puzzles me why you wouldn't, no one is forcing you to play with it on, you have a choice. I don't get why this would cause a division in the community, that's nonsense. A/C has nothing to with the communities collapse from Slidegamers, it was the corrupted with power. Lets be optimistic and see how this goes, it's still early, and hey, don't be a grinch! :D
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 _XBD_sk8_


Join Date: 11 October 2007
Posts:27
Edited 10 December 2010 - 6:43 am by _XBD_sk8_
i noticed something while playing with the A/C im faster then before. i catch people so fast its not even funny, my accleration is faster. well its look like it,sometime i wanted to press the brake and wait for other,
i dunno what happend but its wierd, and its not just a lil .. its way faster, if i hit more then 60-75 fps during a game im kick out right.? anyway maybe its just me and forget how fast i was 2-3month ago .did not play since today,

well maybe is the fact that my wheel is now broken and i play with my mouse again like old time lol? anyawy

see you guys later
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 _HoMeR_


Join Date: 8 December 2008
Posts:313
Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:25 am
the fact is some people play with 60fps, some people are actually not vsync off now..... thats why you are noticing the difference my friend :)
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 _XBD_sk8_


Join Date: 11 October 2007
Posts:27
Posted 10 December 2010 - 7:05 pm
its been 2 years since i used vync 0ff just like last time u said turn it on sk8. because u were saying this is why i was no droping or people not droping.
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 Marky


Join Date: 5 October 2007
Posts:13
Posted 10 December 2010 - 7:51 pm
hahahahaha.... nice advice !! lol
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 _HoMeR_


Join Date: 8 December 2008
Posts:313
Edited 11 December 2010 - 4:11 am by _HoMeR_
i know ull be back marky :P
you've been upset in the past at someone, said the same thing about a dozen times, and came back, everybody comes back, mm2's a curse, as i mentioned earlier, stop bashing over and over again, looks repetitive and is unnecessary.
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 _MID_fudgie


Join Date: 1 October 2007
Posts:45
Posted 12 December 2010 - 12:54 pm
Well I still have no problems here with the anti-cheat.. The only annoying thing I find now is HH/DT ;thumbdown

MM2 is sooo old its unbelievable, but we still play it. The main issue is lag and always will be, but some people just will not have it. Game optimised for Dialup, not Broadband which has been the norm for the last 5 years or so in our community...

Which brings me to the goldenlist... What kind of files are we looking at. do people want HUD's and Revisted stuff in there. I haven't used the new Revisited mod by DB yet, but am assured its more pleasing on the eye, than default... The other question is do the new texture, water reflections and sky mods lag the game even more... I personally don't think so.

I always ensure my game runs at 60 fps throughout, which I'm sure not everyone does.. Its ok starting a game seeing that your fps is at 60, but then when you zoom off Golden Gate Bridge and the game gets jerky, and even drops fps down to 15 fps or less.. Surely that will create lag..

I think some players still need a little help getting the best out of their graphics, they set them up way to high, only for folks to complain when they nd.. Quote me if I'm wrong, but if all players had their game running at 60 fps throughout a whole game in SF and London, that would create the perfect game and sync'd.
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 _7_Skeeball_7_


Join Date: 20 November 2009
Posts:26
Edited 12 December 2010 - 10:45 pm by _7_Skeeball_7_
I think this anti-cheat is very well done in terms of preventing cheating that can be done from within the game itself, but I think it could be improved by giving the host user more options, as well as furthering the effectiveness of the anti-cheat by adding more features to detect "things" that are not used by the Midtown Madness 2 game itself, but are used, nonetheless, by the user to lag and speed-hack the Midtown Madness 2 game to gain an unfair advantage over the other players in a Midtown Madness 2 multiplayer match.

Giving the Host user more options:

A. The option to limit to 65 FPS, 75 FPS and 80 FPS (one for each monitor refresh rate of 60HZ, 70HZ and 75HZ), from the game settings in Voobly.

Why should option A be implemented?

If Driver A is at 60 HZ with VYSNC on while Driver B is at 75 HZ with VYSNC on, Driver B will be faster than Driver A because of an increased average frame count, in this case 15 FPS. In a Cops and Robbers match, When Driver A has the gold, Driver B will be able to catch faster than if he was at 60 Hz, and When Driver B has the gold, Driver A will take longer to catch Driver B than if Driver B was at 60 Hz. Therefore, If Driver B is at 75hz and Driver A is at 60 Hz, Driver B could travel a greater distance with and without the gold in a certain period of time than he normally could if he was at 60 Hz.

In addition, I tested 75 hz with VYSNC ON in singleplayer (I always play 60 Hz in mulitplayer, with VYSNC on) with my Panoz GTR-1, and I could go over every single curb. I couldn't curb hop with the Panoz GTR-1 like that if I was at 60 Hz.

Another example. Lets say someone gets the highest speed possible with the gold weight (130 MPH). You and him both are using the same car, Audi TT, but you have maxed out your speed at 140 MPH. You and him are "pro" and can keep yourselves around those speeds. Because your an average of 10 MPH faster you should be able to catch him, but there is a problem. He is at 75 Hz and your are at 60 Hz so he has an average of 15 FPS greater than you. So your 10 MPH difference, now seems like 3 MPH and the result is you driving around the whole city with the guy, barely gaining any distance at all on him. It already takes long enough to catch him when he is only 10 mph slower, but now that he is at 75 hz it could take up to 3x longer.

But what about bus, a slower car? Is it fair to have someone at 60 Hz as opposed to someone else at 75 HZ? This is my opinion and the honest truth, the same things that I explained above still apply to bus. You can travel a greater distance in a shorter period of time, no matter how much that may be, than someone else who has lower FPS than you, so my answer to this question is this is indeed UNFAIR.

Option A is also flexible so that it addresses the FPS limiter preferences of everyone by allowing the host user to select which FPS limit he or she wants.

If people think the current FPS limiter system is fine and that no more than 80 FPS is okay, then I will seek to prove my points by conducting some tests with other players.


B. Anti-Cheat for add-ons. Allows the host user to control which AR files he or she wants to use from Game Settings. The AR files CRC signatures are checked by Voobly Anti-cheat in correspondence with the host, to ensure that no other ar file is used other than the ar files the host currently has.

Why implement option B?

It is flexible to those who enjoy playing multiplayer games with downloaded vehicles or other cities, and also wish to play a competitive game without having to worry about other cheating mods. It is more convenient than the goldenfile list because someone could want add-on approved for the goldenfile list, such as a car or city, is forced to wait for its approval and implementation and or, after a long wait is rejected approval and implementation out of fear it might allow cheating of some sort. And if a city was to be approved, the problem is that a city can replace materials, and modifications to materials allow for speed-hacks. There are thousands of cars, maybe more, for Midtown Madness 2, so if we approve 1 car then we will we have the others for the sake of fairness and so on and so fourth, they would take time to be implemented and approved, and this process would take time away from the developer. With anti-cheat for add-ons, the host user can easily and INSTANTLY choose which AR files they want to play with, while disallowing the rest, thus eliminating the need to ask for city or car approval for goldenfile list, or perhaps any other graphical enhancements that could potentially lag a multiplayer game?

"Furthering the effectiveness of the anti-cheat by adding more features to detect "things" that are not used by the Midtown Madness 2 game itself." :

C. [I'm not saying anything on this matter for now. It is sensitive, specific information and some people want me to keep my mouth shut about it as it may be T.M.I. and encourage more people to use these methods of cheating than those that may already be currently using them. I may say more on this matter later, however.]


Despite everything I have just said, there is an argument that the Anti-Cheat is no good because it is possible that the majority of people who play Midtown Madness 2 multiplayer on Voobly cheat because it is their "entertainment", they like cheating and get pleasure by getting away with it and making it look like they don't. This cheating is also responsible for the DRAMA that goes on in the Midtown Madness 2 community. It could potentially kill the Midtown Madness 2 community on Voobly by ruining the entertainment of the majority, thus the game becomes boring and people quit, 1 by 1. For more information on how cheating can be entertainment, read this article from [You must login to view link] [You must login to view link]

If the anti-cheat isn't fully cheat proof against elaborate and intelligent cheats, some could enjoy the pleasure of cheating while others don't, which isn't fair. LOL. I have more thoughts on this which I may or may not discuss.

And lets say we do get an anti-cheat that is fully anti-cheat proof. If the majority cheats wouldn't that mean they would get sick of the real players who are really skilled and quit? And what if one of these cheaters is an experienced "cracker" who gets mad. What if he hacks the wholly hell out of everyone in Midtown Madness and the Voobly the website in rage? Then all the Voobly developers' work would be flushed down the toilet.

It can also be argued that the Anti-Cheat is a waste of time because the game itself is flawed in a sense that everyone's steering is different because nobody is using the same set of controls, and the game also naturally lags because it is a TCP/UDP based game, which are known to lag because of the lossy way packets are received and sent.

You may hear more from me later.

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 [xGz]ArTicJoEz


Join Date: 31 August 2007
Posts:48
Posted 13 December 2010 - 12:48 am
Another interesting point about discouraging modding of files and making it hard to include user generated content... Several games companies actively encourage modding of their products. Some commercial video games thrive through a modding community. In the case of Half-Life, a mod called Counter-Strike drove sales of the original software for years. Counter-strike was originally a user made mod. Other games such as The Elder Scrolls series, come with a mod editing tool that allows users to create original content for themselves and others. Other games provide the source code for users to use in experimenting and creating. Often modders will take the game in directions that the developers never anticipated or didn't have time/funding to include. The brand new civilsation 5 encourages used generated content that the most popular mods are automatically downloaded right into your game and available on the main menu. They even state in the promotional video "the community is so important and depends on things such as mods and user generated content, we really encourage that and want to bring it to the forefront". Games like Neverwinter Nights, could never have been as successful as they are without a thriving user community. And as more people have been more connected via the web, this has become a vital and dynamic creative phenomena where users become content creators not just content consumers. Sony’s Home team has told Develop that user-generated content is the ‘ultimate goal’ for the PlayStation 3 service. User Generated Content has grown in popularity, with LittleBigPlanet, Forza Motorsport 3, ModNation Racers and Spore being great examples. MM2 used to have several websites for downloading user generated content and these people used to be able to show off there creativity and skill. Now its becoming harder for their content to be used in the game and they have to overcome hurdles like being accepted on a golden list which as yet isnt even up and running. Also players who want to use mods have to mess around moving files in and out of the folders to move from a/c games to non a/c games. And the claims by some that modding simply = cheating in mm2 (which does occur at times) .. I think it seems a shame to discourage a entire portion of the community that is made of people who enjoy creating this extra content. And this then limits the game to the same old format and reduces the ammount of new features, new graphics, new modes and cities. I think the anticheat should be rethought a little for mm2 to still make it user friendly for modders. Firstly the name anti cheat encourages the labelling of mod users as cheats maybe it should be called "default game mode" or "default lock" or anything without the word cheat :P Secondly it is a lot of hassle to keep moving files in and out to swap between using a/c and not using a/c ...Maybe it could be easier to switch between a/c and non a/c without having to move files to make it less messy to use mods when you want too. And lastly I think we need to get the golden list done ASAP for commonly used graphics updates, popular scenary additions and popular extra cities and definately mods such as DBs revisited! I think having a system where you know everyone is on default mode is important for tournaments and for those who need to prove the point they win al the time fair and square... but i dont think that should be at the expense of those who enjoy making and using user generated content by making it harder to use, which at the moment - it is.
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 [xGz]ArTicJoEz


Join Date: 31 August 2007
Posts:48
Posted 17 December 2010 - 12:46 am
You can get a mod mover to speed up moving mods in and out to switch between a/c and non a/c games really quick without having to fiddle around in the midtown2 file now :)

get details at http://www.voobly.com/forum/thread/32471
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 megA_


Join Date: 8 October 2007
Posts:1
Posted 21 December 2010 - 4:09 pm
How would you guys feel about following ac settings:
AC OFF
-everything allowed

AC ON
-mods that override mm2tex (textures) and mm2aud (sound) allowed
-mods that override mm2core not allowed (city banger and materials ,car bound an damage etc...) not allowed
-the current fps check
This way it only excludes what should have been excluded by mm2 themselves ("is a cheater") in the first place

ps does the current ac also cover the speedhacks running outside mm2?

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 Capillary_Coma


Join Date: 9 July 2009
Posts:41
Edited 1 January 2011 - 12:17 am by Capillary_Coma
things were always fine as they were...
Competitive multiplayer? You had that all along. [You must login to view link] was best place
Cheaters? all along the way too. can't help it, it's just kids having fun 80% of the times
Whiners and cry-babies, too.. Too many. - Can't stand losing is a problem

Players WITH advantages? ALWAYS, ex.: "i got 1GHZ pentium" - "****! Mine is 3GHz with a GEFORCEMAXPOWERPLUSCHARGER ULTRA GRAPHICXZ CARD with 999Gb mem"

My point: NO A/C needed - WE TOO GROWN UP TO CHEAT UP IN HERE.
no point improving what was perfect to begin with
Death is slow, but gets slower when you don't face it: Competitive gameplay here is very limited and restricted to ppl with the know-how (which isnt much of a problem if ur of that group of ppl :D lol )

Have a happy new year, MM2'ers. You mean a lot to me lol rly. and tell ur grandkids what happened in [You must login to view link] and after :D ha ha im serious



And homer... Stop trying to put so much work into MM2, nothing lives forever
love you lol :)


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